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#201620 - 06/13/11 03:14 PM Subpanel repairs
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
I just looked at a house that has 3 subs in nonconforming locations, main hazards are lack of equipment ground cond. and needs gfis on kitchen circuits, multiwire. Question is can I add egc seperate from old 2/3 feeders, Can I replace feeders in existing panels, and install gfi breakers in panels, without having to move/rewire, which might be too costly for HO. I havent found a rehab code in sf bay area, california. Chris
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#201626 - 06/13/11 09:13 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
let me clarify, house was purchased in 2008, built in the forties? has old fuse box location with replaced panel, Ge or gte 100 amp back fed bkr in cabinet low to ground and recessed more than 6 inches as was the typ. fuse box install of the time. adl. sub added in crawl space more than 3feet but less than 6 feet headroom attached to shear wall above foundation sill plate, dirt floor. at this panel 4 wire feed is tied to nuetral no seperate ground bar, easy fix but, do I inherit bad panel location if I touch it? also adl 4/8 panel with 3 wire feed(old WH) now has two small appl.(6 quad recept.s) and liv. circuits fed with two multiwire cables. that I'd like to combine red and black on two 1 pole gfci bkrs, otherwise I guess I could get 120/240 gfci bkrs to protect them,but am unsure of there reliability as they are new to market. thanks chris
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#201627 - 06/13/11 10:07 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9038
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Quote:
now has two small appl.(6 quad recept.s) and liv. circuits fed with two multiwire cables. that I'd like to combine red and black on two 1 pole gfci bkrs, otherwise I guess I could get 120/240 gfci bkrs to protect them,but am unsure of there reliability as they are new to market.


You can't put the two sides of a MWBC on single pole breakers. The easiest fix is to use GFCI devices where they split out on the load end.
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Greg Fretwell
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#201628 - 06/13/11 11:06 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
Yeah its currently on two one pole breakers, in the panel adjacent to the water heater, so I probably have to correct that as well, as it is not handle tied.
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#201632 - 06/14/11 12:42 AM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9038
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I was really referring to two single pole GFCI breakers but you are right, any MWBC has to be on handle tied breakers these days.
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Greg Fretwell
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#201635 - 06/14/11 09:09 AM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
No I was thinking of putting both red and black wires combined to one gfi bkr, so using the wire as you would to a half hot recept. two wires on same bkr, wire nutted, as is the case now. so I would end up with only one circuit at each quad receptacle box. I was hoping not to have to move all the stuff on the counters and rework the boxes, just wanted to get gfi prot. As I would be the only trade work being done, they have no other plans for redoing thier kitchen.
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#201637 - 06/14/11 11:51 AM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9038
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
You would only end up with one small appliance circuit that way if I read you right.
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Greg Fretwell
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#201639 - 06/14/11 12:46 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
no there are two, three wire cables leading to kitchen boxes, both reds go to one breaker via wirenut, as does black wires, so I would be making cables only carry 120 vs 240, but that might leave a path open for someone after to separate and put loads on twin breaker? hmmmmm
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#201640 - 06/14/11 01:46 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
crselectric Offline
Member
Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 133
Loc: albany, ca
Otherwise I understand to do it right i would have to rewire or cut out the offending red or black wire at the boxes.
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#201642 - 06/14/11 02:08 PM Re: Subpanel repairs [Re: crselectric]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9038
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
You can keep the multi wire circuits to the kitchen. Just split them out in the 4x4 boxes with GFCI receptacles.
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Greg Fretwell
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