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#201364 - 05/29/11 04:11 PM outlets requirements in event hall
Merlin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 170
Loc: NW Indiana
I am bidding a renovation of a building that will be an event hall. The inspector told the owners that they must have outlets at least every 12 foot and any wall over 2 foot. This applies to residential, but does it apply to commercial also? This facility would fall under Article 518 considering it will occupy more than 100 people. Thanks

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#201365 - 05/29/11 06:56 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 876
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
The general rule for 12' spacing applies to Residential, not Commercial occupancies.

An event hall is a heavy user of electricity, as well as water and other utilities. The spacing requirement may just be to get a price based on an estimated receptacle count. The finished drawings should show where they should all be located.

Also, in such an application it is not uncommon to require a separate circuit for each receptacle...make sure that you confirm how many panelboards and homeruns you will need before you commit to a number.

Good luck with your Bid.
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#201371 - 05/29/11 08:19 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
I agree with the outlet comments but I suggest that you also check the plans and see if it is indeed a place of assembly. Look for Use Group A on the plans somewhere. Just because it can/will accommodate 100+ people does not automatically put it in Article 518. The type of construction and the design professional will make that call. If it's not a Place of Assembly you might be able to save a considerable amount of money using NM cable. As always, check the plans.
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#201377 - 05/29/11 09:17 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
Merlin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 170
Loc: NW Indiana
Thanks for the information. This facility is owned by a young couple starting a new business in a small community. There are no elelctrical prints. They have told me what there needs are and are leaving it to me to design it. That is not a problem, however I need to follow the codes rather close to compete with other bidders. Change orders can be made after the job has been aquired if necessary.

The prints that I do have don't specify "Group" but I do know that it will occupy more than 100 as the code defines "assembly occupancies". So if I read correctly, there is no minimum number/spacing of required receptacles, correct?

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#201385 - 05/30/11 07:01 AM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Merlin, don't let them toy with you. Stop what you're doing right now!

No prints, no quote. Otherwise, these fine folks are going to let you do the design, then take your design and let the other guy tear it apart. All you'll get is 'gee, we wanted to hire you but you were so much higher.'

Likewise, they'll learn from your bid just what lies to tell. They told you 'assembly.' The moment they see that costs them money, they'll call it something else.

Don't quote without a design- and don't design for free!

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#201388 - 05/30/11 11:21 AM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 876
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
There's another danger that you may get the job based on 'Code minimum' and spend the rest of your life in court because it didn't meet their unstated expectations.

Imagine how the hall could be used. Even if it's just a crafts show, 2 people using electric glue guns could overload a single circuit. Each table location would need its own breaker. What about folks who wanted power in order to show off their wares?

I agree 100% with Renos on this. You're being asked to give a price for a 'pig in a poke' or at the very least to do free design work so that someone else can build it. Don't fall into a trap that you'll possibly never be able to get out of.
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#201395 - 05/30/11 06:22 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
First & foremost I agree with Ghost and Reno 100%

Here in NJ you would not be able to submit an electrical permit application without 'plans'! To do design/build...you still need plans with the permit app. Personally, I learned the hard way about providing a 'quote' on a no-plans yet' job. 98% of those people were shopping, or had 'friend'.

As to the classification of the building, Assembly guidelines are within the Building Codes, and the Building AHJ may make the determination during plan review.
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John

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#201397 - 05/30/11 07:00 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
n1ist Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 176
Loc: Malden MA
They may want to use spider boxes (preferrably the real ones, not hacked panels with quad boxes bolted to them) to allow for easy reconfiguring.
/mike

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#201398 - 05/30/11 09:28 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
Merlin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 170
Loc: NW Indiana
Maybe I should clarify the term "event hall". This will be a reception hall for weddings, reunions, and other catered gatherings. They are using the term "event hall".

I aknowledge and appreciate all of the concern. However, I am pretty well covered on this situation. I was recently "screwed" on a residential job that is currently tied up in court. Since then I have taken some precautions to prevent such a thing.

I will not give them my design, just a description of the work that will be performed. Once again, this is a small community and permits and plans don't always get done like they should.

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#201399 - 05/30/11 10:59 PM Re: outlets requirements in event hall [Re: Merlin]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The only warning I would have on a room like that is you need plenty of power at the places where they will set up the entertainment and where they set up serving lines for food.
Bands will want lights and power for amps, the chef will need power for 1.4kw chafers and heat lamps on the serving line.
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Greg Fretwell

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