ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:44 AM
Old decora style outlets
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:41 AM
NFPA stuff
by gfretwell. 03/28/17 08:08 PM
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,824 Are you busy
166,714 Re: Forum
160,843 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 67 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#201131 - 05/14/11 04:11 PM Reverse Power Relays how do they work?  
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 781
Winchester, NH, US
Folks,

I understand why and where RPR are used. What I do not understand is how they determine the direction of power flow. Can anybody help me?

Thanks


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#201133 - 05/14/11 06:01 PM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: LarryC]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Voltage drop across a resistor.

Simple.


Tesla

#201139 - 05/15/11 12:53 PM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: Tesla]  
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 781
Winchester, NH, US
Tesla, that describes a current shunt.

Where I am familiar with reverse power relays is when you have multiple paralelled generators or a generator tied to the grid. If the prime mover slows down, the slower generator turns into a motor and consumes power instead of producing power. This motoring action can then damage the prime mover.

Looking at the tech sheets, there are connections to current transformers and potential transformers, but how do you determine the direction of power flow?

Larry


#201140 - 05/15/11 03:59 PM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: LarryC]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
I am guessing here but I bet it is by seeing which one has the higher voltage, by looking at that resistor.
Power will always flow from a higher voltage to a lower voltage and if you compare volts in and out of a resistor you can see which end is higher. We are talking about a pretty small delta.


Greg Fretwell

#201141 - 05/15/11 05:52 PM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: LarryC]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
LarryC

The grid is an infinite bus.

All big prime movers drive synchronous alternators -- and they stay in lockstep via their excitation.

Frequency control and synchronization were solved by Tesla.



Tesla

#201267 - 05/23/11 04:19 PM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: Tesla]  
AdrianW  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 10
Nottingham, UK
Reverse Power Relays are indeed used to protect an alternator from 'motoring' in case of failure of the prime mover.

This can't be done by anything as simple as using a resistor inline - we are dealing with AC here, the direction of the current changes 60 times a second anyway!

These devices do have connections to both CT's & VT's. They use the voltage reference as a 'polarising voltage' ie. the current in L1 phase is polarised by the voltage L2-L3 etc. By analysing the angles between the polarising voltage & current it is possible to work out the direction of the real power (W) flow. This is the basic principle of operation of a reverse power relay & also of a directional overcurrent relay.

Remember also, when paralled against an infinite bus:
Prime-mover Torque = Real Power Output
Excitation = terminal voltage = Reactive Power Output

Either of these may be imported & exported independently on the same machine.

Last edited by AdrianW; 05/23/11 04:25 PM. Reason: fingers ahead of brain!

#201275 - 05/24/11 11:06 AM Re: Reverse Power Relays how do they work? [Re: AdrianW]  
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 781
Winchester, NH, US
Thank you AdrianW.



Member Spotlight
Scott35
Scott35
Anaheim, CA. USA
Posts: 2,707
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.014s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7828 MB (Peak: 0.9372 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-30 06:45:18 UTC