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#196826 - 10/28/10 09:03 PM small appliance circuit
Niko Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
Do the receptacles in dining room and pantry HAVE to be on the small appliance circuit or they are ALLOWED to be.

The way that I interpret 210.52(b) is that they have to be on the small appliance circuit.

what is have always done is (2) or more small appliance circuits just for the counter use.

Am i interpreting this incorrectly?
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#196827 - 10/28/10 11:07 PM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: Niko]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Quote:
(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(B) ...


They all have to be in a small appliance circuit and that can be more than two. In a practical sense that only means you feed the dining room and breakfast nook with a 20a circuit instead of a 15a and that only serves receptacles in those 210.52(B) rooms.
As long as you have the two 20s on the counter tops and the dining room is on another 20, I doubt most inspectors would bust you for picking up a living room side receptacle on the other side of the peninsula but it is a violation. You can't just go daisy chaining around the room tho.
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#196828 - 10/29/10 12:09 AM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: gfretwell]
Niko Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
So, if the dining and living rooms have been served by a 15A circuit i have been violating the code.

Now, if i do install the mentioned room with a 20A circuit, it has to be AFCI.
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#196830 - 10/29/10 01:16 AM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: Niko]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If you have 15a receptacle circuits in a dining room it is a violation. They do have to be AFCI tho.

OTOH a "breakfast room" may not need AFCI.

210.12 says "dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas <need AFCI>"

Is it similar to a kitchen or a dining room?
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#196833 - 10/29/10 06:56 AM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: gfretwell]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

Here we go with the "SIMILAR" type of room. I think that is very poor wording in the code book.

I believe originally AFCI were made to prevent using extension cords in bedrooms. So why did it need to be on every other circuit in the house?

Now if you pick up a counter top receptacle, can you pick up a dining room receptacle on the same circuit?

Would that dining room receptacle have to be AFCI?

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#196840 - 10/29/10 10:38 AM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If you are doing code minimum yes, that dining room receptacle will be AFCI and you will pick up your counter top on a GFCI behind the AFCI. Cutler Hammer has a combo GCI/AFCI that might be handy here.
The question probably comes with a "great room" design where there is no real definition of where the kitchen, dining room and great room start.
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#196843 - 10/29/10 01:33 PM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: gfretwell]
Niko Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
So by doing code minimum install as GREG suggested, install GFCI/AFCI combo unit.

But as a good design, install an additional 20A for the dining room but make sure it has AFCI protection.
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#196847 - 10/29/10 02:32 PM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: Niko]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5300
Loc: Blue Collar Country
There's no reason, from a code standpoint, not to just have a separate, 20-amp, AFCI-protected circuit serve the dining room.

Sure, you might set a crock pot on a table ... that's the reason dining rooms are considered as part of the kitchen area ... but I don't see that table as meeting the 'countertop' that would require GFCI protection as well.

There's certainly no requirement that this circuit have anything to do with the kitchen or the kitchen counter. Code simply says you'll have at least two circuits serving the entire area - and that these circuits cannot serve other areas as well.

In this case, the AFCI requirement is certainly a 'curve ball' tossed our way!

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#196852 - 10/29/10 04:50 PM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: renosteinke]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Reno:
I agree with you 100%.

As AFCI is fairly new here the DR & pantry is a stumbling block for some guys yet. I had a few say...I'll put the AFCI receptacle in, and it will be 'both' AFCI & GFCI protected.

Most guys run a third 20 amp to the DR & pantry.
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#196899 - 11/01/10 07:08 AM Re: small appliance circuit [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Reno,

Where does it say that a kitchen counter circuit can not feed other areas?

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