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#196156 - 09/16/10 03:13 PM Language on the panel directory?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
There is an interesting thread over on Fl IAEI BB.
They have a Chinese restaurant and the panel directory is filled out in Chinese. Is that compliant?
What do people do where they have a multi-language society?(Eastern Europe?, Eastern Canada?, Miami?) wink


Greg Fretwell

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#196158 - 09/16/10 03:24 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: gfretwell]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,799
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
This has come up in the Twp I work in. We have many asian ethnicities.

I have to be able to read the panel ID, so english is required. However, in the understanding that the occupants & employees have to be able to read the directory...sub-titles in another language are OK.

Along the same line of thought...the legibility of handwritten directories is another issue! The directories with an 'accent' usually make a bad day slightly funny.

Yes, I have red tagged illegiable directories, or the ones with 'outlets' in all 40 spaces.



John

#196160 - 09/16/10 03:59 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: HotLine1]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Greg, it's funny you should mention that ....

Here at ECN I have posted pictures of panels labled in Korean as well as Chinese. I 'inherited' the Korean panel, and was responsible for the Chinese one.

For the Chinese one, I was 'taken to task' by an "inspector" who objected to the writing on the panel cover, right next to the breakers. It was his assertion that the NEC required a 'directory,' which he understood to mean that you MUST use the little cardboard thing. (FWIW, I had already obtained a ruling on that point from the appropriate committee laugh )

IMO, the breakers need to be ID'd in a manner that makes it crystal-clear to the OCCUPANT exactly which breaker controls what. If that means the Chinese characters mean "Jimmy's bedroom," that's OK with me. It's not for me to speculate as to the needs of the next occupant.

After all, it's not the inspector who will be frantically looking for the right breaker when the air conditioner decides to let its' smoke out.

For public buildings, or areas under the control of 'qualified personnel," I would insist upon English. This is, after all, a country that started with 13 ENGLISH colonies.

My Chinese panel? I Marked the breakers in English as I built the place (lables right on the faces of the breakers) ... then had the customer mark the cover next to them in Chinese as well.


#196162 - 09/16/10 04:36 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: renosteinke]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
The panel directory is for the electrician, the inspector AND the customer. If they want Chinese, that has to be in addition to English (or the prevailing language).
That is what we are coming up with at IAEI anyway.


Greg Fretwell

#196163 - 09/16/10 04:38 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: renosteinke]  
Alan Belson  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
So, it was a case of many Hans make light work?

[Ducks and runs for cover]


Wood work but can't!

#196173 - 09/16/10 06:42 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: Alan Belson]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I've looked all through Article 90, and I can't find the part that says that "The purpose of the code is to make things easier for the inspector." If we're going to 'red tag' something, perhaps it's time for some more specific rules.

Another panel I did - for a secondary distribution system in a commercial building of UPS / isolated circuits had a 'panel directory' that was completely lacking any language at all. Rather, I posted a floor plan, with colored lines and breaker numbers for each circuit. Different? Sure- but the customer loved it.

My goal has been to make it as easy as possible for a completely untrained person to quickly find the correct breaker. I'm gradually becoming a believer in lables on cover plates and disconnects as well.

No matter how you feel on the topic, I think we can all agree that it is nearly impossible to identify things, at the panel, as clearly as we would like - especially when a circuit jumps all over the place, or after a few remodels.

It's ironic that I have had folks question the legality of putting lables directly on the breakers, writing on the panel cover, or doing anything besides filling in the card on the door - even when the door presents the card to you over your head and upside-down.


#196175 - 09/16/10 07:00 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: renosteinke]  
mikesh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
Victoria, BC, Canada
We require the directories in 1 of Canada's official languages and any other language the customer wants too.


#196177 - 09/16/10 10:01 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: mikesh]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
If the inspector can't read it, how does he know that it is legible?


Greg Fretwell

#196179 - 09/16/10 10:15 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: gfretwell]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,799
Brick, NJ USA
Those Korean & Mandarin & Cantoneese characters are usually real neat, so I guess it legiable?

Thinking about it...do we have an official (really) language?



John

#196181 - 09/16/10 10:28 PM Re: Language on the panel directory? [Re: HotLine1]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
Quote
do we have an official (really) language?


Florida along with Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming do have English only laws.


Greg Fretwell

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