The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Correct rotation, wrong sequence
by Potseal
Yesterday at 03:14 PM
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
12/09/16 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 11
HotLine1 9
Potseal 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 7
Who's Online
0 registered (), 8 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#194137 - 05/12/10 05:28 PM Industrial Service
SJT Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 242
Loc: PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
Hello, There is switchgear located outside, near a Building, that has walk in weatherproof cubicles with rack out breakers, and these feed panels on the interior of the Bldg. Can the rack out breakers be considered service equipment, if you have to open a locked gate to gain access? I'm thinking that would be your utility power (location of the rack out breakers is very close to the Bldg. The Main service switch is the first means of disconnect inside the Building, right? Thanks

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#194141 - 05/12/10 07:10 PM Re: Industrial Service [Re: SJT]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Not an easy, quick answer.

Who owns the outside 'gear? Customer owned primary service? POCO 'gear? Any of the rack out breakers identified as a service disco? Marked "Main"?

The service 'main disco' can be either outside, or inside a structure, closest to the point of entry from the utility. Not necessarilly 'on the other side of the wall'; the unprotected (No OCP) conductors must be 'outside' of the structure.

If the site has primary service (7.2KV; 13.2KV etc) the service disco should be in the cubicle adjacent to the POCO pull/termination cabinet. It should be identified as "Service Disco"/"Main" along with Hi Voltage labels, and other info.
_________________________
John

Top
#194170 - 05/13/10 06:15 PM Re: Industrial Service [Re: HotLine1]
SJT Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 242
Loc: PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
John, Thanks for the reply. I know what you mean, that it's not a fast answer. It's a large complex with many Bldgs. There are company owned utility lines with 13.8KV, 2400V ran throughout the site. There are many Pad mount transformers where the 480V or 208V goes directly into the Bldg. It's clear then as what is the main. It seems the way they have been treating the service, is the one that is inside the Bldg. I was wondering what the code would say. I guess the Main would have to be accesible, and not behind a locked gate, like a substation, and will they consider that utility?

Top
#194174 - 05/13/10 09:01 PM Re: Industrial Service [Re: SJT]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Many facilities that I have been involved with, both as an EC, and now as an AHJ have HV services.

The 'service disco' usually is at the point near/where the POCO feeders enter the facility owned equipment. A common setup is a pull section that the POCO cabling terminates in; a PT/CT/etc. then either a "Main" or group of six (6) switches. 'Service' labels must be on the gear. All of this gear is customer owned 7 maintained. Hence, opening the 'main' (or group of six) kills all the power to the facility.

Anything originating from this point outward is considered a feeder, not a service.

Accessability issues re: the locked fence are a local issue to be determined by your AHJ. Breakaway type padlocks are required in some areas; "Knox Boxes" are required in other areas. The fence & gate must be posted with High Voltage signage.

As the HV is distributed thru the facility, and transformed to lower voltages, you have sep. derived systems. Each of these may have primary (HV) and secondary OCP, with the 'main' in the secondary. This by definition is an SDS, not a 'Service'.
_________________________
John

Top
#194227 - 05/16/10 07:06 PM Re: Industrial Service [Re: HotLine1]
Tesla Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Sacramento, CA
The SERVICE is a LEGAL construct: it is the point of connection between Poco assets and Customer assets.

ALL Poco's have standards for those Points Of Service.

So the real question is always not what it is but whose it is...

This is complicated because it is extremely common for the Poco to mandate the specific construction of Service Laterals which are subsequently to be deeded over to the Poco for free as a condition of service.

My last casino project was fed 21 kVolts across a 20 mile spur. THAT was the SERVICE. Everything at the site was customer owned: the casino itself had 4 HV transformers -- one at each compass facing of the building. None of these elements could ever be considered a SERVICE.
_________________________
Tesla

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals