ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/26/17 06:12 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,537 Are you busy
166,260 Re: Forum
160,670 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 54 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#19411 - 12/28/02 09:13 AM bussed gutters  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
this bussed gutter without a disconnect ahead of it doesn't seem like it is legal. 3-Φ power comes from a small meter can into a ct can and then out the back of the ct can through the wall into the warehouse where it enters a gutter with busses. then it goes to the separate disconnect boxes. is it legal to go into this bussed gutter before a service disconnect? it looks unsafe because someone could get into the gutter and it is unfused inside the building. i couldn't find anything in the code except allowing taps, but in 240.2, "a tap conductor is defined as a conductor, other than a service conductor, that has overcurrent protection ahead of its point of supply that exceeds the value permitted for similar conductors.." so how is this allowed?


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#19412 - 12/28/02 12:50 PM Re: bussed gutters  
lwinter31  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 40
Texas
Cindy
You are describing a "service"
Try these
230.33-spices/taps
230.43-methods
230.70-72- disco means/location


#19413 - 12/28/02 07:36 PM Re: bussed gutters  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
230.43 allows most any wiring method like the gutters and 230.70.a.1 says the disconnect just needs to be near th entry point, so if the service entrance conductors get to their disconnects somewhere 'near' the entry then i gues thers no problem? it just seemed unsafe to have the gutter a foot of the floor with easy access and not way to disconnect it. if its in pipe then it is safe, and the ct can is utility seal[wired] shut. it just made me wonder if there were any code restrictions doing it in gutters, like locks or seals. thanks


#19414 - 12/28/02 09:22 PM Re: bussed gutters  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
Cindy,
I find it strange that no means of isolating the incoming supply after the metering, was installed.
Over here in NZ, this would be clearly illegal, as a Main Switch that isolates the whole installation.
What size (ampacity) service is it?. [Linked Image]


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#19415 - 12/28/02 11:05 PM Re: bussed gutters  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Trumpy, although there are exceptions, and as odd that it may sound, on the North-American continent "hot-sequence" metering is fairly universal, putting the utility-owned metering components {self-contained or with instrument transformers} ahead of the building main-disconnect(s)/overcurrent device(s).


#19416 - 12/29/02 12:34 AM Re: bussed gutters  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Most utilities do not want to see any type of disconnect on the line side of the metering equipment because it makes it much too easy to steal power.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#19417 - 12/29/02 10:13 AM Re: bussed gutters  
Cindy  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 196
PDX, OR, US
in my short career in this trade i havent had to get into a gutter like this or install one but i wouldnt want to work in an unfused box like that. cts ahead of discos make sense, but why wouldnt you put a safety swithc ahed of a gutter? just money? locations maybe?


#19418 - 12/29/02 11:44 AM Re: bussed gutters  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
In cases of >6 meters connected to the same service, we're required to install a main switch ahead of the metering...S


#19419 - 12/29/02 08:28 PM Re: bussed gutters  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Cindy,

Is the Bussed Gutter(s) stuff being Metered? (AKA - on the load side of the KWH Metering equipment).
If yes, I have one thing to say: WHADDAHECK-IS-GOIN-ON-HERE???!!!

Thought there was supposed to be a SERVICE DISCONNECTING MEANS somewhere, like as close as possible to where the Service Feeders enter a structure...???

If No, then I think the PoCo may become slightly pissed off about the free KWHs being tapped off the unmetered bus duct (sorry, I meant the Bus Gutters).
A little humor, but you get the idea [Linked Image]

I am with you on how wierd it would be to see an installation without any Main Service Disconnecting Means!

Maybe (Actually - most likely) I am simply mis-understanding what I am reading - and have successfully made an Ass out of myself by now!/?*@$# [Linked Image]

Please let me know if I am heading in the correct direction (as to the service disconnect stuff, not the Human Donkey transformation stuff! [Linked Image].. )

Scott s.e.t.


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!


Member Spotlight
Alan Belson
Alan Belson
Mayenne N. France
Posts: 1,803
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.021s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8010 MB (Peak: 0.9692 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-27 02:55:49 UTC