ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#19411 - 12/28/02 05:13 AM bussed gutters
Cindy Offline
Member
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 196
Loc: PDX, OR, US
this bussed gutter without a disconnect ahead of it doesn't seem like it is legal. 3-Φ power comes from a small meter can into a ct can and then out the back of the ct can through the wall into the warehouse where it enters a gutter with busses. then it goes to the separate disconnect boxes. is it legal to go into this bussed gutter before a service disconnect? it looks unsafe because someone could get into the gutter and it is unfused inside the building. i couldn't find anything in the code except allowing taps, but in 240.2, "a tap conductor is defined as a conductor, other than a service conductor, that has overcurrent protection ahead of its point of supply that exceeds the value permitted for similar conductors.." so how is this allowed?
Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
#19412 - 12/28/02 08:50 AM Re: bussed gutters
lwinter31 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Texas
Cindy
You are describing a "service"
Try these
230.33-spices/taps
230.43-methods
230.70-72- disco means/location
Top
#19413 - 12/28/02 03:36 PM Re: bussed gutters
Cindy Offline
Member
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 196
Loc: PDX, OR, US
230.43 allows most any wiring method like the gutters and 230.70.a.1 says the disconnect just needs to be near th entry point, so if the service entrance conductors get to their disconnects somewhere 'near' the entry then i gues thers no problem? it just seemed unsafe to have the gutter a foot of the floor with easy access and not way to disconnect it. if its in pipe then it is safe, and the ct can is utility seal[wired] shut. it just made me wonder if there were any code restrictions doing it in gutters, like locks or seals. thanks
Top
#19414 - 12/28/02 05:22 PM Re: bussed gutters
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Cindy,
I find it strange that no means of isolating the incoming supply after the metering, was installed.
Over here in NZ, this would be clearly illegal, as a Main Switch that isolates the whole installation.
What size (ampacity) service is it?.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
Top
#19415 - 12/28/02 07:05 PM Re: bussed gutters
Bjarney Offline
Moderator
Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2527
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Trumpy, although there are exceptions, and as odd that it may sound, on the North-American continent "hot-sequence" metering is fairly universal, putting the utility-owned metering components {self-contained or with instrument transformers} ahead of the building main-disconnect(s)/overcurrent device(s).
Top
#19416 - 12/28/02 08:34 PM Re: bussed gutters
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
Most utilities do not want to see any type of disconnect on the line side of the metering equipment because it makes it much too easy to steal power.
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)
Top
#19417 - 12/29/02 06:13 AM Re: bussed gutters
Cindy Offline
Member
Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 196
Loc: PDX, OR, US
in my short career in this trade i havent had to get into a gutter like this or install one but i wouldnt want to work in an unfused box like that. cts ahead of discos make sense, but why wouldnt you put a safety swithc ahed of a gutter? just money? locations maybe?
Top
#19418 - 12/29/02 07:44 AM Re: bussed gutters
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4259
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
In cases of >6 meters connected to the same service, we're required to install a main switch ahead of the metering...S
Top
#19419 - 12/29/02 04:28 PM Re: bussed gutters
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2707
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Cindy,

Is the Bussed Gutter(s) stuff being Metered? (AKA - on the load side of the KWH Metering equipment).
If yes, I have one thing to say: WHADDAHECK-IS-GOIN-ON-HERE???!!!

Thought there was supposed to be a SERVICE DISCONNECTING MEANS somewhere, like as close as possible to where the Service Feeders enter a structure...???

If No, then I think the PoCo may become slightly pissed off about the free KWHs being tapped off the unmetered bus duct (sorry, I meant the Bus Gutters).
A little humor, but you get the idea

I am with you on how wierd it would be to see an installation without any Main Service Disconnecting Means!

Maybe (Actually - most likely) I am simply mis-understanding what I am reading - and have successfully made an Ass out of myself by now!/?*@$#

Please let me know if I am heading in the correct direction (as to the service disconnect stuff, not the Human Donkey transformation stuff! .. )

Scott s.e.t.
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Top

Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box


Who's Online
0 registered (), 58 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
 
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 49
HotLine1 43
gfretwell 18
Ruben Rocha 12
Trumpy 9
 
Newest Members
Freecrowder, clee512, Jdscott2005, FAIZAN, Regitest2

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals