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#192922 - 03/10/10 08:24 AM triple action fire pull
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
Is there such a thing. I have a situation where access controlled doors are currently operting in pairs. One card reader, and one fire pull open a pair of magnets holding the doors. The doors are individual doors separated by a 1 foot divider. The new plan is to make each door individually operated. There will be two card readers and two separate magnets. We would like to have a single fire pull between the doors instead of two pulls beside each other.

Currently since the magnets have common control the dual action pull releases both of them. I have been searching the net trying to find a tripple action pull with no luck. If a triple action is not available we are going to try hooking the common negative line to the pull staion.

This is Canada if that make any difference.


Edited by jdevlin (03/10/10 08:26 AM)

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#192926 - 03/10/10 11:23 AM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: jdevlin]
SteveFehr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
US fire code laws require release of mag-locks upon loss of power, upon pushing a "PRESS TO OPEN" button, upon fire alarm, and upon motion sensor seeing someone approach the door. Quite elaborate, really, but necessary to prevent people from being trapped in burning buildings. All the interlocks do the same thing, though- break power to the mag lock. I'm not familiar with Canadian law, but I can't imagine it being more stringent than this. Breaking a common circuit path sounds like an acceptable way to do it- it would open both doors simultanously in an emergency, but allow independant operation of the other sensors.

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#192927 - 03/10/10 03:28 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: SteveFehr]
frank Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 361
Loc: windsor ontario canada
We just wire the doors through the push button switch at the pull station and use notifer monitor modules for the system.I have also added extra switches to the pull station if needed.What system do you have?
The mag locks must release imediately by law as the system may take up to 15 seconds to release the doors causing the occupants to look for another escape route.The mag locks cant be soly wired into the system for this reason and must be hard wired directly to the doors as well.So the hard wiring goes through the switch and is redundant as the mag locks are also wired through the fire relay. We then have tyco come in and certify it.I can get you part #s if you like hope that makes sence
cheers


Edited by frank (03/10/10 03:43 PM)

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#192931 - 03/10/10 05:20 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: frank]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
The panic bar inside the door should open the door under all circumstances. When would you lock someone inside a building? The fire alarm releases the door so the fire crew can enter from the outside, so it can be wired through a relay on the fire alarm system. The delay is to enter, not to leave. If it isn't an addressable system, a relay can be installed to operate with the signal circuit. The main doors must open even if a station is pulled, or a smoke detector triggered, in a different part of the building.

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#192939 - 03/10/10 08:53 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: twh]
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Here is the US there are some people with concerns that someone could grab some merchandise and run out the door with it.
They put magnetic locks on the doors to sound an alarm and delay opening the doors so that the security people have time to respond (usually 15-30 seconds. When there's a fire alarm, the delay is bypassed and the doors release automatically; specifically to avoid the scenario of trapping someone inside a burning building because you were originally trying to stop a shoplifter.
_________________________
Ghost307

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#192941 - 03/10/10 08:59 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: twh]
frank Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 361
Loc: windsor ontario canada
The fire chief does not want any delay in or out during a fire period.The problem is that all mag lock doors must have a pull station that immediately releases it.The rational is that in a fire the occupants will pull the station on the way out and release the door before they get to it.This is redundant to the fire relays
If it's not hardwired at that door the system can take up to 15 seconds to release the lock and they will go back into the building looking for another exit.This is a real problem if they are the first to find the fire.I dont think any delay is intend it just take that long for thr system and locks to release in large buildings
The problem with wiring into the crash bar is that over time the wire can and will become fatigued from opening and closing the door where a mag wont.
Mag locks are used in Hospitals,jails,schools and anywhere we want to control public access,use swipe cards or allow only certain individuals access.
Another option is electric strikers but they also ware out quickly on doors that get operated hundreds of times a day and in high security we can have that either.
Thats the code around here anyway
cheers


Edited by frank (03/10/10 09:14 PM)

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#192942 - 03/10/10 09:27 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: frank]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Most fire alarm pull stations (conventional) have dual contacts. 1 can be used to activate the alarm and the other to open the mag ckt.

in your particular case, a relay seems to be the answer.

As far as releasing doors,in older buildings,unless being re-certified,most jurisdictions will not require the release upgrade.

If this is a new install,relays are in order.


Inspired from another site. Re- OSHA standard,Hospitals and such.
"1926.34(a)

"General." In every building or structure exits shall be so arranged and maintained as to provide free and unobstructed egress from all parts of the building or structure at all times when it is occupied. No lock or fastening to prevent free escape from the inside of any building shall be installed except in mental, penal, or corrective institutions where supervisory personnel is continually on duty and effective provisions are made to remove occupants in case of fire or other emergency.


Edited by leland (03/10/10 09:33 PM)
Edit Reason: Osha ref.

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#192944 - 03/10/10 09:41 PM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: frank]
frank Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 361
Loc: windsor ontario canada
The power to the mag lock goes through the fire relay then the push button switch at the pull station then to the mag lock.We order the same switch from notifier that the pull station comes with.You probably have to have it certified like we do so you can always ask the guy inspecting it what he wants.
cheers

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#192947 - 03/11/10 07:51 AM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: frank]
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
Frank has it correct. The pull staion must release the maglocks at the door. I guess you can call it an override switch. We know what needs to be done. It jsut seems silly to mount two pull station side by side to get the required action for two doors a foot apart. this is not a double door setup but two separate single doors 1 foot apart.

Is there such a thing a triple action pull station?

I won't be doing the actual work but have been tasked with finding out if the pulls are available.



Edited by jdevlin (03/11/10 07:52 AM)

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#192948 - 03/11/10 11:01 AM Re: triple action fire pull [Re: frank]
SteveFehr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Originally Posted By: frank
The fire chief does not want any delay in or out during a fire period.
The security chief does not want any unauthorized personnel to enter or leave the building, period, including the fire chief and his crew of scoundrels- why, for all we know, they set that fire specifically to infiltrate the secure facility! Security requirements need those doors to fail locked during power outages to prevent intrusion, and all sorts of other things fire marshals go ballistic over.

It's unfortunate, but it's extremely hard to reconcile these opposing requirements and make a facility both safe and secure.

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