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#189729 - 10/23/09 06:56 AM New Jersey guys
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
New Jersey Electricians,

I have received a letter from Suzanne Borek that states if you do a service change, that falls under the REHAB code and Arc Fault is not required as of yet. Also even if you gut the whole house and rewire it from scratch, ARC FAULT is not required.

However if the GC builds anything new to an existing house ( Even if it is 1 or 2 feet) That new section of the house will have to meet the '08 code. That goes for TR recpt. and arc fault.

You can contact Suzanne at the DCA if you need to.

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#189741 - 10/23/09 12:21 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Harold:

NEWS TO ME!!!!

An actual 'letter' saying the above....could you get me a copy?

Last discussion I had, no afci on service upgrade/panel change. IF doing an addition...all new work AFCI, per code. Using/extending an existing circuit...afci required. Gut a whole house...bring into 2008 NEC.
_________________________
John

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#189746 - 10/23/09 12:39 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
John,

That is what I thought, but I will send you a copy of her letter and you tell me what you think of it.

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#189796 - 10/25/09 06:53 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Harold:

I respectfully have to disagree with the interpretation of the 'gut & rewire' of an existing dwelling NOT requiring AFCI protection.

The memo from Suzanne specifically references a specific section of the UCC; Rehab (5:23-6.8 (d)), Materials and Methods, Carefully reading that section, reference is made to 5:23-3.16 (Electrical Subcode) which references the 2008 NEC, not 2005 NEC.
As NO reference is made to AFCI, either by Article or by verbage, I see no valid exception to requiring AFCI installation, by reference of Rehab.

Thinking about a total gut & rewire, I can see Rehab for clearances, and possibly some spacing issues, but other than that....what's the difference from new construction??

Hopefully, others will jump in here on this.

The 'extension' of an existing branch circuit, could also be debated based on the above UCC, and NOT be exempt.
_________________________
John

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#189797 - 10/25/09 07:37 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: HotLine1]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
I get confused: But I am a simpleton.

What code do you folks use? (electrically speaking)
As An Electrician: I WOULD demand WE ALL follow the same rules. This crap I read.... This guy on that cycle...Me on this cycle... Thats TOTAL BS!!!!!! Your in the same State!!!! I don't get it.

You all seem to get soooooo Deep into the codes that realy don't affect us on a daily basis..... I just want to know why you make your life's soooo hard?

For no apparent reason.

All codes yes, Are taken into consideration. But as a driving force? Adhere to yours. then when the ALLMIGHTY Engineer 'missed it'. Swoop in and return the favor.

Do you ask the Building inspector for approval? Or just get it done?

If we adhered to every portion of every code...we (None of us) Would ever get a bid!!!!!!

So whats that tell ya!!!? Just a realist.

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#189808 - 10/26/09 06:29 AM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: leland]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Leland:
NJ uses the 'UCC' (Uniform Construction Code)which is the basis for all work within the state. Within the UCC are national standard codes that are 'amended' as seen fit by the lawmakers. The 2008 NEC was adopted with amendments into the UCC effective 10/06/2009.

That all said, the above is in reference to a section within the UCC called "Rehab", and the comments both Harold & I made relate to an opinion/interpretation by Suzanne Borek, from DCA, (State).

Opinions/interp's on 'Code' are sometimes a way of life, as individuals all have 'opinions' on matters that are considered "gray" & not spelled out in black n' white.

Some people read or hear only what they want, others read or hear only parts, others add things they think they hear/read.

AFCI is a new requirement here, and with the rehab code, some things require clarification.

As to being deep into codes, it's sometimes necessary....how about when an EC calls me (or Harold) to ask..."do I have to install AFCI breakers in a replacement panel change job?"

Personally, I would rather ask then find out the hard way.

Deep within a bunch of code books.......

Stay Safe!
_________________________
John

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#190137 - 11/07/09 10:05 AM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
John,


The last letter I got from the local IAEI chapter had a note in there from Susanne. It says "...I want to clarify that any work done in an existing building or dwelling will comply with the "Rehab" code as presently written..."

So in MHO it sounds like the arc fault is not required yet even if the whole house (which is existing) is gutted and rewired.

I can also see why other people get confused when they see that NJ follows the NEC (sort of) Our state will adopt the NEC but likes to adjust the code to meet our states needs. ( Be it for better or worse).

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#190150 - 11/07/09 02:49 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
I'll shoot her an email from work Monday.
_________________________
John

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#190222 - 11/09/09 07:15 AM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
John,

If you get an answer, please let me know. I would like to know which way we are suppose to enforce the NEC. smile This Rehab code lets people get away with a lot.

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#190242 - 11/09/09 04:40 PM Re: New Jersey guys [Re: harold endean]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
When I get a reply, I will pass it on to you, and post it here.

As of 4:00PM today, no response yet.
_________________________
John

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