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#189622 - 10/19/09 09:27 PM Plan Check requirements and "preferences"
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
All,

I am looking for input, in regards to required and "preferred" items of an Electrical Set, submitted for Plan Check.

Simply stated, what do you typically see / want to see / hate to see on Plans, and what specifics are common requirements for your Jurisdictions.

Threads exist in several areas regarding this topic, but I wish to drum-up discussions and examples in a dedicated new thread.

All replies are welcome.

Thank you in advance.

Scott
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Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#189630 - 10/20/09 06:36 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: Scott35]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Scott:
From the 'reviewers' side (quickly for now)...

Biggest delay lately has been the tech card (permit app) and the plans not matching in items and quantities. It is amazing with the slow economy that the EC's miss/omit items, or have 'fudged' counts. I'm not referencing device counts, but what I refer to as 'major' items', panels, large equip., etc.

As to the quality of the plans...most are good..a few are really bad. Egress lighting circuitry, panel schedules, load calcs, one-lines, etc., not addressed.

The above results in reject notices, phone calls, etc., and often a call from 'Administration'...."what's the hold-up?"
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John

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#189632 - 10/20/09 08:12 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: HotLine1]
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
John,

Thanks for the reply.

Will add comments after more responses have been posted.

Scott
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#189640 - 10/20/09 01:05 PM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: Scott35]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
It will be interesting to hear views from the EC's
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John

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#189711 - 10/22/09 05:06 PM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: HotLine1]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Scott:
I'm making this a 'sticky' to see if anyone jumps in. Come on guys, plan review comments, EC's, reviewers, estimators, EE/PE/Arch!!
_________________________
John

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#189723 - 10/23/09 12:33 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: HotLine1]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The only think I would say is you need those load calcs. We had a thread here recently about extending an existing circuit without and acknowledgment of what was already on it and what it served.

In the residential I see the plan is usually more of a guideline than an actual diagram of what they build, particularly if they are mastered. Pushing walls around usually changes outlet placement and it is very common that extra outlets get installed, either at customer request or to meet 210.52(A) requirements.
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Greg Fretwell

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#189724 - 10/23/09 05:48 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: gfretwell]
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
There are a few architects out there that are very gifted or they have a good computer drafting program and make beautiful diagrams that fall short on electrical specifications. It is not uncommon to see things missing or left so vague that the plans can not be approved. The reason for plan review is to lessen the possibility of installing a system that will not meet code. An virtual inspection if you want to call it that. Type of usage, wiring method, raceway fill, type of raceway, type of wire, clearances from other items in the room, arc flash calculations, available fault current, loads on circuits and feeders, riser diagram, specifications on equipment requirements, details on system grounding, available voltage from utility, panel ledgers, location of exits and emergency lighting equipment, circuiting, overcurrent protection and I'm sure I left out some. I find it rather lax for an architect or engineer or design professional to submit a plan that has a disclaimer that says "Subject to local Codes" or uses a rubber stamp that has generic wording that is only basic information that is might say "To be installed to the current version of the NEC". Find out from the Building Department which version of the NEC is in place and design to that. I have a punch list that is useful when I perform a plan review that help me remember things to check.

The State of Michigan has a firm policy that requires that plans are sealed by a licensed Architect or Engineer. While this certainly helps we still see a lot of plans that get sent back.
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George Little

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#189725 - 10/23/09 06:27 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: George Little]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6786
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
100% in agreement with you on the resi plans. Basically they are just a 'cursory' submittal for the electrical & plumbing, and fire protection,but...much more critical for the building aspect.

A large majority lack HVAC, service location, service size, and circuitry...oh well.

PS: Nice to see a few jump in here.
_________________________
John

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#189727 - 10/23/09 06:45 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: HotLine1]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
John,

How about when a homeowner gives you a "sketch" of his kitchen with 1 or 2 receptacles.

I also love it when the architect shows the beautiful print of the job with not enough receptacles to meet code.

Another glitch, how about when someone summits an electrical tech sheet and you see that the "Lic" EC has an expired lic. number.

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#189728 - 10/23/09 06:53 AM Re: Plan Check requirements and "preferences" [Re: HotLine1]
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Greg, John and George;

Thanks for "Starting the Ball Rolling!"

I might post images of an Electrical Plan Set from some past Project, as an example of what I commonly include. Just need to make the posted stuff readable, and that's going to be really hard to do!
The best option for readability, would be to link the PDF versions for download, then the Plan Sheets may be viewed via a "PDF Reader" (i.e. Adobe Acrobat Reader).

Nevertheless, I really appreciate the contributions so far - and for John making this Topic a "Sticky Note".

Scott
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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