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#189130 - 09/21/09 08:57 AM Required equipment while working live
leespark Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Massachusetts
I am working on a small job at a local university where we were required to install 2 20 amp 120 volt circuits into a 200 amp 3 phase panel. After we installed the wires in the panel the building manager is requiring us to file an energized electrical permit and wear protective equipment to turn the circuit breakers on. Can I get some insight as to what protective equipmet I need to wear?

Thanks

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Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
#189131 - 09/21/09 09:54 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leespark]
JoeKP Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 144
Loc: Berkley, MA
only thing i can think of off the top of my head would be to wear a protective face mask
_________________________
-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
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TOH

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#189180 - 09/22/09 07:44 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: JoeKP]
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
NFPA 70-E which you should have on site has a chart in it .

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#189397 - 10/05/09 10:11 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: Yoopersup]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
Not only NFPA-70E as da Yooper mentioned, the university has a hot work policy and do does your a shop. You should follow the stictor of the three. One standard may be strictor in some areas, less in others. Follow the more strictor.
_________________________
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#189402 - 10/05/09 05:04 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: sparkyinak]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Nope it's not me,(another 'Lee' in this great Commonwealth (tongue in cheek))

1- How did you get those conductors into that panel with out the proper PPE?
2- How did you get the job with out a detailed outline of your safety policy?
3-CYA- You can't replace you. get the Colleges policy,add 20% to the job-(min).

4-You will need the arc flash rating of the panel and ckts. Or you just schedule a shutdown on OT. Plan on having an 'in house' guy there too.

5- once the ckts are connected. put the dead front on. No PPE required.

Oh the joys of trying to make a living!!!

Cambridge? what side of town?


Edited by leland (10/05/09 05:06 PM)
Edit Reason: #5

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#189415 - 10/07/09 11:17 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leland]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
It sounds to me the policy is formulated without any consideration for the actual hazard. PPE is required for any work in the panel if the panel is energized. To don PPE once the breakers are installed and the wire terminated is closing the barn door after the horse has run off. It is true that some panels have fault levels high enough that PPE might be required to manually operate the breakers but for many panels that is the only thing you can do without PPE on an energized panel. All is predicated on there being an arc flash hazard greater than 0 and in some cases a denim shirt and safety glasses is all that is required if the arc hazard is low enough.

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#189417 - 10/07/09 11:50 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: mikesh]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
"All that's needed" .....

That's where the waters get muddied.

"Competent" requires you to have training as to the safty risks, etc. "Sure," you think, "we all get that in our career." Well, the wonks aren't happy with that; they want you to be required to go to their seminars on a regular basis, having your 'certification' renewed. frown

Ditto for protective clothing. Apart from the US Navy asserting that all their Fatigues (denim and chambray) are 'flame/flash resistant,' and the existance of all manner of very protective clothing used for decades by welders, the wonks want a special lable on that heavy denim shirt saying "complies with NFPA ###."

Clothing makers are jumping in, with their 'proprietary' specially treated fabrics.

One ray of light is the vastly increased availability of rated clothing, due to our campaign in Iraq. Thank Al-Qaida for that, with their IED campaign. Though teseted to the NFPA standard, however, this gear may be identified to a different classification system.

Part of me is beginning to wonder if 'safety' is just an excuse used by others for their own reasons.

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#189425 - 10/07/09 05:42 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: renosteinke]
gpsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Kansas
AND to top it all off, if you don't launder their specially treated fabric in the correct manner, you lose the rating.
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Sometimes not getting what you want can be an incredible stroke of luck.

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#189909 - 10/29/09 10:49 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: gpsparky]
SteveFehr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
This gov spec is based on NFPA-70E (and incorporates all NFPA-70E requirements) and goes through most of the arc-flash requirements in plain english. It's also free:

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_560_01.pdf

We all wear cotton clothes, hard hat, safety glasses and leather gloves whenever resetting a 20A 120V breaker, right?

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#189913 - 10/29/09 11:09 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: SteveFehr]
gfretwell Online   content

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Does 2 out of four count?
(Cotton and safety glasses everywhere I go.)
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Greg Fretwell

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