The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#189130 - 09/21/09 08:57 AM Required equipment while working live
leespark Offline
Member
Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Massachusetts
I am working on a small job at a local university where we were required to install 2 20 amp 120 volt circuits into a 200 amp 3 phase panel. After we installed the wires in the panel the building manager is requiring us to file an energized electrical permit and wear protective equipment to turn the circuit breakers on. Can I get some insight as to what protective equipmet I need to wear?

Thanks
Top
Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
#189131 - 09/21/09 09:54 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leespark]
JoeKP Offline
Member
Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 144
Loc: Berkley, MA
only thing i can think of off the top of my head would be to wear a protective face mask
_________________________
-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH
Top
#189180 - 09/22/09 07:44 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: JoeKP]
Yoopersup Offline
Member
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
NFPA 70-E which you should have on site has a chart in it .
Top
#189397 - 10/05/09 10:11 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: Yoopersup]
sparkyinak Offline
Member
Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1309
Loc: Alaska
Not only NFPA-70E as da Yooper mentioned, the university has a hot work policy and do does your a shop. You should follow the stictor of the three. One standard may be strictor in some areas, less in others. Follow the more strictor.
_________________________
"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Top
#189402 - 10/05/09 05:04 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: sparkyinak]
leland Offline
Member
Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Nope it's not me,(another 'Lee' in this great Commonwealth (tongue in cheek))

1- How did you get those conductors into that panel with out the proper PPE?
2- How did you get the job with out a detailed outline of your safety policy?
3-CYA- You can't replace you. get the Colleges policy,add 20% to the job-(min).

4-You will need the arc flash rating of the panel and ckts. Or you just schedule a shutdown on OT. Plan on having an 'in house' guy there too.

5- once the ckts are connected. put the dead front on. No PPE required.

Oh the joys of trying to make a living!!!

Cambridge? what side of town?


Edited by leland (10/05/09 05:06 PM)
Edit Reason: #5
Top
#189415 - 10/07/09 11:17 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leland]
mikesh Offline
Member
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
It sounds to me the policy is formulated without any consideration for the actual hazard. PPE is required for any work in the panel if the panel is energized. To don PPE once the breakers are installed and the wire terminated is closing the barn door after the horse has run off. It is true that some panels have fault levels high enough that PPE might be required to manually operate the breakers but for many panels that is the only thing you can do without PPE on an energized panel. All is predicated on there being an arc flash hazard greater than 0 and in some cases a denim shirt and safety glasses is all that is required if the arc hazard is low enough.
Top
#189417 - 10/07/09 11:50 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: mikesh]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
"All that's needed" .....

That's where the waters get muddied.

"Competent" requires you to have training as to the safty risks, etc. "Sure," you think, "we all get that in our career." Well, the wonks aren't happy with that; they want you to be required to go to their seminars on a regular basis, having your 'certification' renewed. frown

Ditto for protective clothing. Apart from the US Navy asserting that all their Fatigues (denim and chambray) are 'flame/flash resistant,' and the existance of all manner of very protective clothing used for decades by welders, the wonks want a special lable on that heavy denim shirt saying "complies with NFPA ###."

Clothing makers are jumping in, with their 'proprietary' specially treated fabrics.

One ray of light is the vastly increased availability of rated clothing, due to our campaign in Iraq. Thank Al-Qaida for that, with their IED campaign. Though teseted to the NFPA standard, however, this gear may be identified to a different classification system.

Part of me is beginning to wonder if 'safety' is just an excuse used by others for their own reasons.
Top
#189425 - 10/07/09 05:42 PM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: renosteinke]
gpsparky Offline
Member
Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Kansas
AND to top it all off, if you don't launder their specially treated fabric in the correct manner, you lose the rating.
_________________________
Sometimes not getting what you want can be an incredible stroke of luck.
Top
#189909 - 10/29/09 10:49 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: gpsparky]
SteveFehr Offline
Member
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
This gov spec is based on NFPA-70E (and incorporates all NFPA-70E requirements) and goes through most of the arc-flash requirements in plain english. It's also free:

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_560_01.pdf

We all wear cotton clothes, hard hat, safety glasses and leather gloves whenever resetting a 20A 120V breaker, right?
Top
#189913 - 10/29/09 11:09 AM Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: SteveFehr]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Does 2 out of four count?
(Cotton and safety glasses everywhere I go.)
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box

Recent Posts
Looking for older post
by sparkyinak
Today at 12:27 AM
License exam
by TRUE POWER
Yesterday at 11:33 PM
Members: Non-Members: Did you know?
by Admin
Yesterday at 02:34 PM
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:29 PM

Who's Online
0 registered (), 66 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters
gfretwell 9066
Trumpy 8560
pauluk 7693
HotLine1 6833
sparky 5545
Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Member Since: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals