The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#189033 - 09/16/09 01:21 PM Picnic Shelter Lights
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I was at a picnic recently, in a very nice park. The picnic shelters were particularly nice, with glulam and structural tubing for the framing. I noticed these lights under the canopy:



Personally, I think it's a very neat and professional installation. Yet, I also see two issues that are worth discussing.

First, note the screen added atop the light, to prevent birds from nesting. I concede that bird nests are an issue that needs to be addressed, for a variety of reasons .... but I also guarantee that some bird-brain will peck away, claiming that this modification will conflict with the listing. What say you?

Second, These lights typically call for 105 degree wire, and are marked 'not for use inside dwellings,' or some such. The reason for both stipulations is that they get HOT. Would you consider installing them, surrounded by wood as they are, to be a fire hazard?

Top
Tools for Electricians:
#189036 - 09/16/09 02:25 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: renosteinke]
NORCAL Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 805
If they get hot enough to cause a fire, the polycarbonate refractor will melt, I have the same Hubbell fixtures on my shop mounted to plain T-1-11 fir siding w/ no problems w/ them...

For those who are not familiar with those wallpacks, the back is cast aluminum, the refractor is plastic, & that model has a vert. mounted lamp.

Top
#189037 - 09/16/09 02:51 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: NORCAL]
adamh Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 13
Loc: UK
Being in the UK, I'm not familiar with US codes and the whole "listing" thing. Could somebody explain how the piece of mesh, which does not appear to be attached to the light, could be a modification that conflicts with the listing?

Top
#189038 - 09/16/09 03:48 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: adamh]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4225
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
I don't think that the mesh could be construed to be a problem by any inspector. There's plenty of air circulation around the fixture. There are many "bird spikes" atop outdoor fixtures.

'not for use inside dwellings' Means just that..

Plenty of Commercial buildings have wood siding.

as for the 105C wire..... I wonder just how many installers wire them with 90C rated THHN/THWN-2 and call it done?

frown



Top
#189039 - 09/16/09 03:53 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: adamh]
gfretwell Online   content

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Since this does not actually modify the luminaire and it doesn't affect airflow I can't see how it affects the listing. My only question, from a maintenance standpoint, is if it affects relamping.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#189041 - 09/16/09 04:06 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: electure]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Well, something has 'nested' on that conduit. Looks like a solitary wasp or spider nest. There is not enough room above that fixture for birds to nest in. My guess is it's to deter certain 2 legged beasts from hinging the cover down and....

As to a fire risk, the mesh does not interfere with air flow, so I doubt it would have any effect on the temperature.
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

Top
#189042 - 09/16/09 04:25 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: Alan Belson]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Maybe a potter wasp?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2356/2510560027_7c9d0dc2b1.jpg?v=0

A paralysed caterpillar is stuffed in through the hole, & injected with a wasp egg & sealed. It then hatches & eats the prey alive...
Some of these wasps are huge, but rare. I saw one in the Charante Maritime a couple of years back, it was at least 2" long!


Edited by Alan Belson (09/16/09 04:28 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

Top
#189045 - 09/16/09 09:19 PM Re: Picnic Shelter Lights [Re: adamh]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Adamh, "listing" refers to the approval of an item by some testing agency. Here, UL (Underwriters' Lab) is the 900lb gorilla of the electrical business.

UL will write its' own standards, then test products "for public safety." They then license the use of their marks on the product. As a point of grammar, UL will insist that it doesn't 'approve' products, it simply 'lists' them. So, we will say a product is "UL listed." In many places of our electrical code, we are limited to using 'listed' products.
Now the fun begins. UL, naturally, can only speak as to the conditions under which a product was tested. Whenever a product is used in an unusual way, or the product is modified, an argument can start as to whether or not the use is contrary to the intended, or 'listed' use of the product.
Some ninnies will even question the practice of twisting the wires under a wire nut, as UL does not twist them in their evaluation.

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals