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#187997 - 07/16/09 07:55 PM A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
From 2008 NEC:

"406.11 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units.
In all areas specified in 210.52, all 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles."

Now...

What say you regarding a L5-15 or L5-20 twistlock installed inside a resi?
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#187998 - 07/16/09 08:05 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: HotLine1]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4225
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA

bash clap

I'd say that it effectively prohibits Twistlocks in resi.




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#187999 - 07/16/09 08:05 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: HotLine1]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
I'm an electrical geek and I have a few Twistlock receptacles in my house for battery backup system connections. I guess I won't be allowed to do that anymore! cry
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---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#188073 - 07/20/09 07:56 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: EV607797]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
As an inspector, I would ask, "What are they needed for?" The only UPS's I know are are commerical grade UPS units you would find in an IT room. Even the ones used at my office have just a standand NEMA 5-15 plug. If it is needed for a home office then the dwelling can become a mixed occupancy. This is a double edge swords since mixed occupancies must meet other code requirements too. Such as floor loading, fire protection, etc. If someone were to go this route best be up on their local appicable codes.
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#188076 - 07/20/09 08:35 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: sparkyinak]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If they are in addition to the ones specified by 210.52 it is not clear they have to be T/R.

Quote:
406.11 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles in Dwelling Units.
In all areas specified in 210.52, all 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles.



You have to be careful how you answer that or we will be looking for a T/R twist lock for the A/G pool pump.
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#188078 - 07/20/09 08:50 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

'...in all areas specified....' NOT '....to the ones specified.....'
Good thought, but not exactly what the book says.


SparkyinAK:

As an inspector...I can't ask 'what are they needed for'. BTW, this is a theoretical brain teaser.
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#188079 - 07/20/09 11:12 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: HotLine1]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I just don't like the way 406.11 is worded I guess.
"outdoors" is "specified" in 210,52(E) but it doesn't apply to all receptacles outdoors.
If it doesn't apply to the receptacle on a pool pump outdoors, why would it apply to a receptacle indoors that is not specified in 210.52,

Quote:
210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
This section provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets. The receptacles required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
(1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
(2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
(4) Located more than 1.7 m (51/2 ft) above the floor


Since these are not specified in 210.52 are they exempt?
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Greg Fretwell

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#188099 - 07/21/09 12:15 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
IMHO, 210.52 is the 'required' receptacle outlets, detailing required spacing, locations, etc. Basically, the code required minimums.

Yes, 406.11 wording is not liked by a few people.
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John

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#188107 - 07/21/09 03:16 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: HotLine1]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
That was my point. If a receptacle is not one of the ones required by 210.52 is it required to be TR?
The examples would be the ones I referenced in the first paragraph of 210.52 that are "in addition" to the ones "specified" in 201.52.
That would certainly exempt the garage door receptacle for example. Also I doubt you would have to use TR in the appliance garage. The real question left open is the switch controlled lighting outlets.

Do the manufacturers have TR receptacles in baseboard heaters?
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Greg Fretwell

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#188109 - 07/21/09 04:47 PM Re: A Tamper Resistant Brain Teaser [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

Commentary at CEU course on '08 changes leaned toward the word 'all' for TR recept's.

Discussing this here with you has me thinking about the commentary that was part of the changes presentation materials.

We (NJ) have until 10/1/09 to get our 'act' together on a few items, this being one.

I'm going into this with an open mind, and now...going to dig out the 'changes' commentary that we used....hopefully it's in my files, not 'loaned' & never returned!

As to the BB htrs.....more food for thought.
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John

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