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#187178 - 06/16/09 02:22 PM shed on a GFCI??  
JoeKP  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Berkley, MA
hey, does a shed need to be put on a GFCI breaker, or just the outlets lead by a GFCI outlet??
thanks


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#187184 - 06/16/09 07:33 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: JoeKP]  
Steve Miller  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
Assuming there is a panel in it, the feeder does not. That being said ... In my area the AHJ determination was that it is treated like an unfinished basement. His logic was that since the receps in the shed will have grade level access for yard tools (used ouside) treat them as if they were outside.
If you're only taking one circuit to it and the plan is to feed it GFCI protected (from the house), either a GFCI breaker or GFCI recep will do the trick. (recep is a lot cheaper)


#187188 - 06/16/09 09:43 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: Steve Miller]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 866
See 210.8 2005 /2008 NEC
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
FPN: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the
requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
(8) Boathouses

That was a copy & paste from the 2008 NEC.


#187190 - 06/16/09 10:45 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: Steve Miller]  
JoeKP  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Berkley, MA
Originally Posted by Steve Miller
Assuming there is a panel in it, the feeder does not. That being said ... In my area the AHJ determination was that it is treated like an unfinished basement. His logic was that since the receps in the shed will have grade level access for yard tools (used ouside) treat them as if they were outside.
If you're only taking one circuit to it and the plan is to feed it GFCI protected (from the house), either a GFCI breaker or GFCI recep will do the trick. (recep is a lot cheaper)


There is no Panel/Sub-panel in the shed, just a single 12/2 with ground going out to the shed as a feed.


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH

#187191 - 06/16/09 10:53 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: NORCAL]  
JoeKP  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Berkley, MA
Originally Posted by NORCAL
See 210.8 2005 /2008 NEC
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
FPN: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the
requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
(8) Boathouses

That was a copy & paste from the 2008 NEC.


Thanks, what i am going to do is on the feed in, i will add an inline GFI switch (the kind with only the buttons, no outlets)(like this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/104072404/2006_UL_listed_GFCI_ground_fault/showimage.html )


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH

#187192 - 06/16/09 10:57 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: JoeKP]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:

As Norcal posted above....
"(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use"


John

#187193 - 06/16/09 11:03 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: HotLine1]  
JoeKP  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Berkley, MA
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Joe:

As Norcal posted above....
"(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use"


i see, and i have to use the GFI recep, as i said above, because the panel in the garage is a screw in fuse panel, hopefully going to get upgraded too


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH

#187194 - 06/16/09 11:08 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: HotLine1]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Interesting link...
Pic is a faceless (deadfront) GFI; text reads 'receptacle.
Side pics are GFI receptacles. $3.xx(US) ea, 3000 pc minimum.
Interesting?


John

#187195 - 06/16/09 11:11 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: HotLine1]  
JoeKP  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Berkley, MA
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Interesting link...
Pic is a faceless (deadfront) GFI; text reads 'receptacle.
Side pics are GFI receptacles. $3.xx(US) ea, 3000 pc minimum.
Interesting?

yeah, thats just an example, but you know what i mean, ill put that in the line before it goes out to the shed, would that be OK by code??


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH

#187207 - 06/17/09 03:34 PM Re: shed on a GFCI?? [Re: JoeKP]  
ChicoC10  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
CA
My take on sheds is that in most cases they are not permanent structures. Sure they might never move once installed, but they might.

I consider them a plug-in appliance. I pipe to a bell box on a post near the shed with a GFI receptacle and a bubble cover installed. Set up the shed with a WP pigtail and plug it in.


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