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#186805 - 05/28/09 08:03 PM Legal question
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9026
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I got a question from my wife.
Golf course
480v feeder going through the property belongs to the golf course across the street serving their pumps in her lake (water rights thing).
The plan
Tap the feeder, set a transformer to serve 2 2HP pumps of her's (all that stuff).
The EC is working on all the calcs and design as we speak.
The question
They have a piece of paper saying they have permission and an agreement about the bill, does that sound right? Have you ever seen this before?
I suspect it will come up in the permit process IF the code examiner sees it but I doubt it. It all happens in their parcel.
Where are the land mines?
Greg Fretwell

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#186806 - 05/28/09 09:04 PM Re: Legal question [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline


Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6792
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
If your scenario is like this:
Golf Course pays POCO bill
Spouse will pay Golf a fee for her pump power.
All is well as long as POCO is paid.

Scenarios like that are around here (NJ)between landlords and tenants. Also, a lot of 'check meter' & 'sub-meter' setups with one POCO meter (Landlord) and multiple users
that pay the landlord.

Drawback is...if landlord don't pay POCO it gets shutoff and the 'subs' have no way to have it restored short of paying the bill & assuming the POCO meter.

Years back I worked on a golf course here that had a 'tap' for billboard lighting, that was reinbursed quarterly to the club at a calculated flat fee.

#186807 - 05/28/09 11:38 PM Re: Legal question [Re: HotLine1]
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9026
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
This is actually 2 golf courses, different owners. I suppose if everyone is happy it is OK but the one that owns the 480v feeder is being sold. I fear they will get all this work done and the new owner will say he doesn't want to do it anymore.
I doubt this "OK" from the other golf course is attached to the title in any way
Greg Fretwell

#186812 - 05/29/09 07:42 AM Re: Legal question [Re: gfretwell]
NORCAL Offline

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 805
Why not have a PoCo feed? Is there some reason that this situation is the best way to do it,rather then a separate service & then not having to deal w/ uncertainties in the future?

#186818 - 05/29/09 04:03 PM Re: Legal question [Re: NORCAL]
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
I guess setting a Meter Main for these Pumps is not an option here?
This may be a solid choice for the future; if the Customer of which the original Service Feeder decides to delete that Account, the Poco would need to extend continuity of Service to the Account for the 2 Pumps.

Just a thought.

Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#186824 - 05/29/09 05:02 PM Re: Legal question [Re: Scott35]
homer Offline

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 68
Loc: Vancouver, WA, USA
Asking electricians about legal matters like this is similar to asking a real estate attorney to design an electrical service.

Perhaps some hours of attorney time, (even someone who uses the golf course) would be wise. A written contract signed by both parties mentioning things like the easement that probably already exists for the existing feeder and covering details about joint maintenance responsibilities if there is a blow out. In Florida it is not unheard of to have lightning damage underground lines. An experienced real estate attorney can prevent a lot of hard feelings.

Good luck!

#186827 - 05/29/09 08:32 PM Re: Legal question [Re: homer]
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9026
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
OK I/we went to see this today. Everything we "knew" was wrong. Huge surprise huh?
They may have a real plan on the "legal". I think they are just transferring the bill on the meter so the PoCo won't care.

This isn't 480

The other pump is very seldom used so they will coordinate the load. (managed facility)

50a OC device, motor starter, 6ga wire hundreds of feet to a disconnect and a fire plug sized motor (name plate missing).
240v red leg delta, no neutral.
They already have 2 3/4HP 120v pumps installed (10.5 FLA)

Big conference and we all split off.

My thought is to be really legal they need a transfer switch if I can't find out more about the big motor.
There seems to barely be enough copper for that and certainly not enough for another 1.5HP.
YMMV on how you deal with managed facilitates.

Then my thought
Take phases A/C out through a 20a 2 pole OC device on 4-2 150' to the first pump, set a 5 KVA transformer to get 240/120, feed the first pump/disco right there with #12, #4-2 out of the other winding down to the second pump/disco 550 feet away (4v V/D)

Now it may be noted the service disco shows 257 between phases *the red leg" is almost 220 above ground so they could stand some voltage drop. I think they ramped up to get that 10HP?? motor to run.
I really wish I had a way to test this drop before we start buying copper.
I am curious to see what the EC comes up with.
Greg Fretwell


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