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#186152 - 04/22/09 01:40 AM Older 30 amp Range Circuit
dougwells Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1226
Loc: kamloops BC Canada
I have been running across 30 amp range feeds 10/3 wire. some are on 40 amp breaker some are on 30 amp breakers.

Apparently for awhile in the 70s csa allowed this.Then they thought better and changed to 8/3. Anyhow the AHJ says that CSA didnt address the issue with this when installations were allowed to have this cable for ranges.

Now I have to change out the cable in mobile homes to certify the mobile and any service upgrades or if a range is still hard wired and the replacement range has a cord.

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#186155 - 04/22/09 08:56 AM Re: Older 30 amp Range Circuit [Re: dougwells]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
PITA on a few levels.But if you must....
I would print a bunch of the CSA requirements so the Home owners don't think your pulling a fast one.

On the other hand, It appears to be a good revenue stream.

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#186183 - 04/24/09 06:39 PM Re: Older 30 amp Range Circuit [Re: leland]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 892
Loc: Regina, Sask.
If you do a panel change and the existing range is fed with #10, can you still use a 40 amp breaker?

How about if the customer wants a range plug installed, and you find it's fed with a #10 on a 40 amp breaker. Can you install the receptacle?

I thought it was from before the 70's until this week I found it in a row of 8 condos that were built in the 80's or 90's. It seems the rules might not be rigidly enforced.

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#186186 - 04/25/09 08:01 AM Re: Older 30 amp Range Circuit [Re: twh]
Eddy Current Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
I used to come across this alot on an old residential high rise. The building managment wanted to install receptacles for all the hardwired ranges as the units became empty. Origional installation was harwired with a 40amp breaker and 10awg wire.

Inspector let us install 5-50R range receptacles but we had to use 30amp breakers.
Normally we would have to re-wire to 8awg but these places had real small kitchens so only a small apt-size range would fit.

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#186302 - 05/01/09 11:10 PM Re: Older 30 amp Range Circuit [Re: Eddy Current]
Check Pilot Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Edmonton Alberta Canada
We run across this one all the time in the older parts of Edmonton, Alberta. #10 will just eventually die a slow death hooked up to a 40 amp range. I've seen it all too often. The outer covers just eventually die from heating and over the years, eventually just crumble to dust. I've seen some attics where the bare copper got exposed in some places where the cable just succumbed to the current to feed the range. I know it's a PITA to change the cables but ya gotta do it. We always just do it now and it only adds about $500.00 to a reno if you're already there.

We had one owner that changed his range to a Wolf range that needed 50 amps and we had ourselves a $1500 change to #6 cable for about 100 feet that was fed with #8 before. He argued about it until we showed him the crumbled #10 that fed his old range. He quickly changed his mind about what we we eventually installed.

I think the best thing to do is just change the conductors even though its a big job. I kind of like to think that we have a journeyman's certificate to keep folks safe from the dangers that they might try to do themselves.

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#186303 - 05/02/09 06:20 AM Re: Older 30 amp Range Circuit [Re: Check Pilot]
Eddy Current Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Originally Posted By: Check Pilot
#10 will just eventually die a slow death hooked up to a 40 amp range.

Well yeah, that's why the inspector made us use 30amp breakers

Quote:
We always just do it now and it only adds about $500.00 to a reno if you're already there.

In a house mabey but try that in a high rise apartment building using BX. It will cost more than $500 just to patch the holes! Also the old ones are hardwired so changing to a receptacle in a wall that was built 40+ yrs ago tends to take some time.

Quote:
I've seen some attics where the bare copper got exposed in some places where the cable just succumbed to the current to feed the range.

The ambient temperature up there doesn't help either, that's why we have to de-rate wires in attics [CEC 4-004(8)] Although it's rarely done

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