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#185952 - 04/07/09 02:12 PM Break Rooms Ect
Yoopersup Offline

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
In Break rooms Ect where theres just a sink, & 2 counter top outlets (GFI) of course. I take it we still use the 1500 volt amps per outlet for calculations right.

2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#185955 - 04/07/09 05:01 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9025
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
It is not a 210.52(B) "kitchen" if that is your question.
Greg Fretwell

#185957 - 04/07/09 06:19 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: gfretwell]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
1500? I don't see any requirement to use more than 180 in your calculations.

#185965 - 04/08/09 08:30 AM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: renosteinke]
KJay Offline

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
I would just add that since it's not a dwelling unit, I would normally just put in what was needed for the layout.

The last one I did was in a lawyer's office, which had one of those combo microwave/refrigerator units and a small counter top/sink area with a dedicated space for a Bunn coffee maker.
As I recall, I just basically put in two dedicated 20A circuits for those items, but optionally added another 20A circuit for the counter top area incase they ever wanted to plug in a toaster oven or something similar, if allowed to. GFCI's on them as mentioned, since they were all within 6-feet of the edge of the sink.

#185969 - 04/08/09 03:15 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: KJay]
Yoopersup Offline

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
I know its not by defination a Kitchen BUT You do know the Loads that well be there as KJAY stated.

#185970 - 04/08/09 05:29 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup]
Niko Offline

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
Designing is a different subject than what the code says. As I read the NEC 2008 and as renosteinke mentioned it is only 180VA per strap/yoke.
I am a proponent of a good design for now and for future loads and not just the minimum by the NEC.
Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

#185971 - 04/08/09 06:55 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Niko]
HotLine1 Offline


Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6792
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
180 va for NEC calcs. THe design professional (IF there is one) has to determine requirements ABOVE code minimum in this case. THe NEC is not a design manual, nor is good old 'common sense' anywhere within the nine chapters.

I recently inspected a 'break room' that had 20 (twenty) 120 volt, 20 amp dedicated circuits w/single recepts at the counter areas for the twenty (20) micros for employee lunch/dinner. (Along with a 4.5KW tea brewer)

#185983 - 04/09/09 07:20 AM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: HotLine1]
ghost307 Offline

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 882
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
I agree with John.
Many times I have responded to "just put in whatever the Code minimum is...I don't want to just throw money away" with my canned response:
"I can design an installation that will meet every Code requirement, but even the Amish will be blowing fuses".

There are a lot of folks out there who fail to understand that the Code is concerned with Fires and Electrocution.
If you don't have enough power to run your appliances...that's a separate problem.

That's why I always look over and above the minimums in my designs...yet there are still an awful lot of cheapstakes out there who want just the bare minimum.


BTW, in Chicago installing a microwave oven invokes the Plumbing Code (you need a grease trap installed at the teeny little sink).


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