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#185952 - 04/07/09 02:12 PM Break Rooms Ect
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
In Break rooms Ect where theres just a sink, & 2 counter top outlets (GFI) of course. I take it we still use the 1500 volt amps per outlet for calculations right.
Yoopers

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#185955 - 04/07/09 05:01 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline


Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9063
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
It is not a 210.52(B) "kitchen" if that is your question.
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Greg Fretwell

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#185957 - 04/07/09 06:19 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: gfretwell]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
1500? I don't see any requirement to use more than 180 in your calculations.

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#185965 - 04/08/09 08:30 AM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: renosteinke]
KJay Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
I would just add that since it's not a dwelling unit, I would normally just put in what was needed for the layout.

The last one I did was in a lawyer's office, which had one of those combo microwave/refrigerator units and a small counter top/sink area with a dedicated space for a Bunn coffee maker.
As I recall, I just basically put in two dedicated 20A circuits for those items, but optionally added another 20A circuit for the counter top area incase they ever wanted to plug in a toaster oven or something similar, if allowed to. GFCI's on them as mentioned, since they were all within 6-feet of the edge of the sink.


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#185969 - 04/08/09 03:15 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: KJay]
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
I know its not by defination a Kitchen BUT You do know the Loads that well be there as KJAY stated.
Yoopersup

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#185970 - 04/08/09 05:29 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup]
Niko Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 358
Loc: Campbell, CA
Designing is a different subject than what the code says. As I read the NEC 2008 and as renosteinke mentioned it is only 180VA per strap/yoke.
I am a proponent of a good design for now and for future loads and not just the minimum by the NEC.
_________________________
Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live


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#185971 - 04/08/09 06:55 PM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Niko]
HotLine1 Offline


Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6832
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
180 va for NEC calcs. THe design professional (IF there is one) has to determine requirements ABOVE code minimum in this case. THe NEC is not a design manual, nor is good old 'common sense' anywhere within the nine chapters.

I recently inspected a 'break room' that had 20 (twenty) 120 volt, 20 amp dedicated circuits w/single recepts at the counter areas for the twenty (20) micros for employee lunch/dinner. (Along with a 4.5KW tea brewer)
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John

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#185983 - 04/09/09 07:20 AM Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: HotLine1]
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 897
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
I agree with John.
Many times I have responded to "just put in whatever the Code minimum is...I don't want to just throw money away" with my canned response:
"I can design an installation that will meet every Code requirement, but even the Amish will be blowing fuses".

There are a lot of folks out there who fail to understand that the Code is concerned with Fires and Electrocution.
If you don't have enough power to run your appliances...that's a separate problem.

That's why I always look over and above the minimums in my designs...yet there are still an awful lot of cheapstakes out there who want just the bare minimum.

smile

BTW, in Chicago installing a microwave oven invokes the Plumbing Code (you need a grease trap installed at the teeny little sink).
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