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#185249 - 03/06/09 05:00 PM Something up his Sleeve ?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Hi all, i was wondering if anyone would be interested in the dubious defintion of sleeve in the nec.

note that we do define raceway in art 100, but not sleeve

our nec starts out defining raceway as 'enclosed'
Webster's definition(s)

2 : a channel for loosely holding electrical wires in buildings

i'm told that anything that isn't could be viewed as a sleeve wiki-definition
In construction, a sleeve is used both by the electrical and mechanical trades to create a penetration.

comments....??

~S~

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#185254 - 03/06/09 08:29 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: sparky]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Sparky:
The wiki-definition says it all.

Thanks for the links
_________________________
John

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#185258 - 03/06/09 10:03 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: HotLine1]
Bigplanz Offline
Member

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 72
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Inspectors in my department tell me a sleeve is something to protect a wire when going through a wall or floor. A raceway is something that goes from j-box to j-box, typically. They also tell me that sleeves don't have to be grounded but raceways do (if they're metal).

Not being an inspector myself, this is just what I have been told (question came up when I was reviewing a building addition a couple of years ago). Please correct me if I am mistaken. I am but a humble urban planner who shares a floor with the electrical inspectors. smile

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#185260 - 03/06/09 11:45 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: Bigplanz]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
They call that 4" PVC they run under a driveway a sleeve here. Everyone who needs to go to the other side lives in it.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#185264 - 03/07/09 05:06 AM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: Bigplanz]
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Bigplanz;
Quote:

Inspectors in my department tell me a sleeve is something to protect a wire when going through a wall or floor. A raceway is something that goes from j-box to j-box, typically. They also tell me that sleeves don't have to be grounded but raceways do (if they're metal).


well 300.4 mentions 'sleeve' multiple times in regards to physical damage, ans 250.86 is where 'short sections' is mentioned

niether are in definitions, or the index of the nec.

apparently this is where pipe fill and detrating take a hiatis, at least to some (and this particular some teaches code updates btw)

For instance, let's take a simple cellar romex job that incorporates 1/2" deep 4 square devicing boxes with 1/2" emt 'sleeves'

the romex is not stripped, because it is not captive at the upper end of the 1/2" emt. Note the type/style of connector here would make all the dif....

another example might be an underground service riser on a poco pole. These being considered an 'open' entity that allows heat out.
I've noted the pocos are great on V-drop, yet somewhat fall short of the nec pipe fill doctrine

~S~

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#185265 - 03/07/09 05:07 AM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: gfretwell]
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Originally Posted By: gfretwell
They call that 4" PVC they run under a driveway a sleeve here. Everyone who needs to go to the other side lives in it.


methinks they get a night out 3-17..... grin

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#185294 - 03/08/09 04:08 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: sparky]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The reason I brought it up is, who can live in a sleeve and does it have to be "conduit"?
Typical situation, the GC put a 4" PVC plumbing or DWV pipe under the driveway. The irrigation guy shot a 1" black poly pipe in there, The landscape guy put his Malibu zip lead in there, the TelCo and CableCo went through and the electrician needs to get a 12/2 UF across the driveway. Can he go through it?
Joe T an I used to always disagree about this.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#185295 - 03/08/09 05:11 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: gfretwell]
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
would the jist of the debate be different systems in the same space Greg....?

~S~

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#185379 - 03/12/09 05:00 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: sparky]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

One comment/opinion I heard regarding this....

The 'sleeve' has to be material that is 'electrical'

ie: PVC conduit, EMT, etc.; as opposed to plumbing, or other materials.

Thoughts??? Anyone care to comment??
_________________________
John

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#185381 - 03/12/09 05:40 PM Re: Something up his Sleeve ? [Re: HotLine1]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I think we need to focuson the WHAT we're trying toaccomplish, and the WHY, and not get bogged down in the details.

Let's first ask: what is a 'sleeve" supposed to do? As best I can tell, it's there primarily to protect the wires from damage, and perhaps secondarily to ease the installation of those wires.

If that's the case, then the sleeve has, as it's first priority, to be able to withstand whatever it is we want to protect against. An errent staple is one thing; a backing up semi-trailer is another. Or, the sleeve may be there to keep the wires from getting in harms way; an example might be the tubes used to keep wires around your car's engine from getting caught in belts, etc.

I would like to observe here that UL does NOT have a listing classification for 'sleeving.' Let's not make the leap and assume that 'conduit' is always a good material for a sleeve.

However the sleeveis made, two other criteria need to be met.First, the wires need to be protected from abrasion where they enter the sleeve. Second, they need to be secured.

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