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#183702 - 01/19/09 07:44 PM how often....
adroga Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 35
Loc: canada
do you guys usually work with the circuits live?

In canada we use 600V phase to phase/ 347v phase to ground in industial/commercial applications and sometimes we are put in a scenario where we have to work live in a junction box.

So my second question is, how often do you guys get shocked?

I received a s brief shock at 347 the other day working in a live J-box where conduit was installed right under it and I guess i grounded my elbow... it was a surprise more than anything but makes me wonder at what point can i hurt myself?

We always try to be careful, but mistakes do happen and I just want to see how frequently this happens to you sparkies out there.

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Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#183703 - 01/19/09 07:54 PM Re: how often.... [Re: adroga]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Working 'live,' while a part of the trade, is to be avoided if at all possible.

It's not 'professional' to take unnecessary chances. Leave you ego at home when you go to work.

I've found, over time, that I have unconsciously adopted practices that usually succeed in keeping me from getting shocked - even when I later learned that the circuit was actually 'hot.' Sure, mistakes and faults happen ... but it's foolish to tempt fate.

"Hurt yorself" is a poor criteria, and independent of voltage. It's noteworthy that the one electricution I witnessed involved a 20 amp 120 volt circuit. Nor will the 'little' shock be relevant, if the result is your falling from the ladder.

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#183710 - 01/19/09 09:36 PM Re: how often.... [Re: renosteinke]
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
347 is killer. I wear my gloves until I confirm it is dead.

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#183711 - 01/19/09 10:23 PM Re: how often.... [Re: jdevlin]
adroga Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 35
Loc: canada
what kind of gloves do you recommend for these situations?

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#183712 - 01/19/09 10:29 PM Re: how often.... [Re: adroga]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Gloves are available from many sources. Rated by voltage, the set usually consists of a rubber liner, a leather protective set, and a bag to keep them all in.

Salisbury is one maker. Expect to pay $150 for a set.

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#183716 - 01/20/09 08:04 AM Re: how often.... [Re: renosteinke]
mbhydro Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 340
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
And if you have gloves you should get them tested at least once a year to make sure they have not broken down.

The local utility here will contract to test them on the same tester they use to certify their lineman's gloves.

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#183741 - 01/21/09 07:34 AM Re: how often.... [Re: renosteinke]
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
Originally Posted By: renosteinke
Gloves are available from many sources. Rated by voltage, the set usually consists of a rubber liner, a leather protective set, and a bag to keep them all in.

Salisbury is one maker. Expect to pay $150 for a set.


That's them. Not sure of the brand though.

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#183747 - 01/21/09 09:34 AM Re: how often.... [Re: adroga]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4225
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Adroga,

Quote:
sometimes we are put in a scenario where we have to work live in a junction box.


I see that you registered as a "future apprentice" a year and a couple of months ago.
Not to be demeaning to you in any way, but there's absolutely no reason for you to be working live circuits AT ALL.

347V, to me, says lighting circuits.
The same scenario unfolded at one company I worked for, except for the voltage, which was 277V, and the level of experience (Journeyman).
The electrician, working from a scissor lift 25' up, was leaning across a rack of conduits, just to "make up some wires" in a junction box.
He was electrocuted (read DEAD) before he hit the concrete slab.

You listen hard and good.....
There is no condition under which you are required to work under those circumstances. If you can't work it unenergized then don't work it at all.

The only thing that gloves are for are for verifying that the power is off, and will remain off by your personal padlocked lock out device.

Did you report the incident, and if so what did your foreman, or whoever is in charge say?

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#183751 - 01/21/09 11:54 AM Re: how often.... [Re: electure]
SteveFehr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
In my line of work (Article 708 stuff), just about everything needs to be worked live because outages aren't possible. Especially not for the engineering surveys when it's my hands in the box. Safety is of utmost priority, though. I've never been shocked nor has anyone working for me or with me.

At home, however, I'm ashamed to admit to being complacement and lazy and have had more than my share of minor shocks...

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#183762 - 01/21/09 05:46 PM Re: how often.... [Re: adroga]
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8530
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted By: adroga
do you guys usually work with the circuits live?

Only when trouble-shooting in emergencies, then the power gets cut anyway, before any real work happens, that requires tools.

Quote:
In canada we use 600V phase to phase/ 347v phase to ground in industrial/commercial applications and sometimes we are put in a scenario where we have to work live in a junction box.


Where does it say that you have to work live?

Quote:
So my second question is, how often do you guys get shocked?

The smart electrician never gets an electric shock.
One other thing, people outside of the trade, always ask me when out on a job "How many shocks have you had??", this really annoys me to bits, it's like the general public seem to think we are a bunch of numb-skulls that fly into a job without any testing or isolation procedures. mad

Quote:
I received a s brief shock at 347 the other day working in a live J-box where conduit was installed right under it and I guess i grounded my elbow... it was a surprise more than anything but makes me wonder at what point can i hurt myself?


You want to go and get a lottery ticket, mate, a lot of people have been killed with a "brief shock" of lesser voltage.
BTW, having bare skin showing when working on anything that could be live around a lot of grounded metal, is, to say the least, silly.
I know people that have been dismissed after accident investigations, finding that even though they were wearing gloves, they had bare arms.

Wearing insulated gloves (and outers) sets some people into a false sense of security, they are NOT an excuse to work live, in fact, anyone that has used them to any great degree will tell you they are more of a nuisance than anything else.
I only use mine when I have to, aside from that, they stay in the truck in their proper container.


Quote:
We always try to be careful, but mistakes do happen and I just want to see how frequently this happens to you sparkies out there.


There is also an idea called "minimising the risk", this is what the LOTO system is designed for.

One concept I was offered during my apprenticeship, was that "All wires of any type (even ground wires and neutrals) shall be treated as live, until such time as it is confirmed with proven test equipment, that they are not"

I've never forgotten that line. wink
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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