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#183297 - 01/02/09 07:52 PM Craftsman National Electrical Estimator
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
Anyone use the Craftsman National Electrical Estimator? I downloaded a trial version and am trying to understand it. Is it worth the effort? Thanks, Steve....

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Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:
#183299 - 01/02/09 08:23 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: sparkync]
Jim M Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 453
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
I tried it a few years ago. My issue was trying to understand what was included in the assembly pricing. IE is there still a need to add for the homerun and breaker.

These books also don't take into consideration your personal times and cost of doing business. This can only be determined by knowing your costs and tracking your times for various tasks.


Edited by Jim M (01/02/09 08:25 PM)

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#183300 - 01/02/09 08:32 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: Jim M]
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
I've already come upon a problem just practicing on it. I usually run #2 SER aluminum to a 100 amp subpanel for residential, and I can't find that in the list. It has copper wire but no aluminum. I would like to get use to it, because I can see where it would help me if I could figure out how to use it and if it had everything I wanted.
Quick update: My mistake, I did find the #2 SER Alum. Must not have typed the right word in for search. It's going to take some time finding out how to use it...


Edited by sparkync (01/02/09 08:44 PM)

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#183333 - 01/04/09 04:12 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: sparkync]
Webmaster Offline

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Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3142
Loc: NY, USA
Awhile back (if I remember correctly) we had someone from Craftsman do a Q & A in our chat area.

Maybe they could be persuaded to come back if there was enough interest in it.

Bill

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#183338 - 01/04/09 09:12 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: Webmaster]
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
So far I've not seen anyway I could give a final bid on a job using it. I might could give a "ball park" bid. I'm still praticing with it. I'm finding it hard to find "specifics". I found the #2 SER aluminum wire by mistake. I'll still have to do it the old way (step by step installation/materials) until I get better at using it.

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#183340 - 01/05/09 12:18 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: sparkync]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I'm sure someone has pointed out, you can't use 310.15(B)(6) for a sub panel (ref the #2al and 100a)
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#183345 - 01/05/09 05:13 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: gfretwell]
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
Greg, unless it's been changed in the 2008 code ( I don't have one accessible now) it says in 310.15(B(6) in the 2005 code that it pertains to "Services, and Feeders". The inspectors here have passed it for as long as I can remember. Steve...
Back to the Craftsman Estimator, I'm finding their prices for material are way off, normally way high. Looks like if a person is going to use it they would have to go through and change all the material pricing, and that would take SOME doing. Don't know about their labor charges. Looks like it might not be worth the trouble..

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#183354 - 01/05/09 09:07 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: sparkync]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
This is 2002 (and unchanged for years prior)

Quote:
(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For dwelling units, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase service-entrance conductors, service lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to a dwelling unit and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section, the main power feeder shall be the feeder(s) between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard(s)



Of course the NEC means whatever the AHJ says it means but it says this only applies to "the main power feeder ... between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance panelboard(s)" That would exclude any sub panels
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#183355 - 01/05/09 09:14 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: gfretwell]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
In 2008 they removed all references to "lighting and appliance" panel boards so it just says "all loads that are part of or associated with a dwelling".
They are saying you are counting on the load diversity you have in the total dwelling load. A sub panel may be loaded to a significant part of it's rating all the time (in the 3hr = "continuous" state of mind).
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#183393 - 01/07/09 09:31 PM Re: Craftsman National Electrical Estimator [Re: gfretwell]
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
Sorry Greg, I must have missed that portion, and the inspectors here too. I'll look at it closer next time. Don't have the code book handy now. Thanks for the input though. Honest mistake on my part... Steve

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