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#183221 - 12/31/08 11:39 AM 17KW Free Standing Range
dougwells Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1228
Loc: kamloops BC Canada
I received a call from a customer looking to purchase an electrolux free standing range. the specs say 17kw@240 V.
I calculate this out to 70 amps.
His existing range supply is 40 amp.
The electrical specs say min 50 amp circuit.
would this range come with a cord attached already. model is electrolux CEW30EF6G.

I assume the existing wire #8 would not be suitable.

the other model is 15kw that he is looking at.
looking at the code it looks like we could only put a 14 kw on the existing range branch circuit

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#183228 - 12/31/08 06:15 PM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: dougwells]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
Depending on the age of the existing wire, #8 is good for 45 amps.

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#183239 - 01/01/09 05:13 AM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: dougwells]
ahickey Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Northern BC, Canada
The electrolux page is iffy as to whether the oven comes with a cord or not. If it doesn't, you can get one.

The cord kit for that particular range and specs says you should order the 50amp cord kit.

Here's the installation instructions for the range:
http://www.electroluxappliances.ca/Files/Documents/Install%20Guides/EW30EF65G_in.pdf

Found them on this page here:
http://www.electroluxappliances.ca/node31.aspx?tab=2&categoryid=1199&productid=18211

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#183285 - 01/02/09 11:28 AM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: ahickey]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
8.300-1(b) says demand for a range is 8 kw plus 40% of the rating over 12 kw. 8000 plus 2000 or 10,000 watts which is 41.5 amps non- continuous load per 8-200(3) So the number 8 is good for 45 amps and the breaker should be 60amps. Your local inspector may permit the 50 amp breaker but the rating is required for the 52 amps IE 41.5 X 1.25 = 51.8 amp breaker size. The domestic range cord supplied with most 12 to 14 KW ranges have a number 8 conductors with a 10 neutral. I don't know what these cords are actually rated for. I imagine the 50 amp cord is #6 with a full sized neutral and costs 5 times as much. The same range if it could be used in a commercial install (most are not rated for continuous use) would need 70 amp wire on a 90amp breaker. I don't think I have ever seen a domestic range at 17 KW.

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#183286 - 01/02/09 12:14 PM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: mikesh]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
If the load is non-continuous, why would the breaker be 125%? I thought that was for continuous loads.

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#183319 - 01/04/09 10:19 AM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: mikesh]
Eddy Current Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Quote:
8.300-1(b) says demand for a range is 8 kw plus 40% of the rating over 12 kw. 8000 plus 2000 or 10,000 watts which is 41.5 amps

26-744(4) Where a range having a calculated demand of 50amps or less, receptacle 14-50R shall be installed.

26-744(6)bla, bla, bla calculated demand of 50amps or less, shall be cord connected using CSA configuration 14-50P

Originally Posted By: mikesh
The domestic range cord supplied with most 12 to 14 KW ranges have a number 8 conductors with a 10 neutral. I don't know what these cords are actually rated for. I imagine the 50 amp cord is #6 with a full sized neutral and costs 5 times as much.


Cords supplied with domestic ranges are rated at 50amps. Residential range receptacles are also rated at 50amps.

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#183337 - 01/04/09 07:24 PM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: Eddy Current]
Eddy Current Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Sorry, I had to run and couldn't finish my post.

Quote:
His existing range supply is 40 amp.
The electrical specs say min 50 amp circuit.
I assume the existing wire #8 would not be suitable.


After looking at those codes I'd say the existing #8 wire is good. You would need a 50amp breaker, 50amp range outlet(standard)and 50amp range whip(standard)

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#183364 - 01/06/09 11:19 AM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: twh]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: twh
If the load is non-continuous, why would the breaker be 125%? I thought that was for continuous loads.
Because Inspectors are conservative types and might call it that way. I did not claim he would be correct ;-) I agree with Eddy current and did not look at the rules in section 26. Thanks Eddy.
Point of disagreement. The range maker requires a different cord for ranges over 16.6 kw (I think it said that)
So my only point of disagreement comes from the manufacturers instructions that requires other than the standard Domestic range cord. Not that I know what that difference might be. I have to read section 36 now to answer another question but I now need to read section 26 again to find what else I don't know about domestic appliances.

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#183368 - 01/06/09 07:43 PM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: mikesh]
Eddy Current Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Quote:
the manufacturers instructions that requires other than the standard Domestic range cord. Not that I know what that difference might be.

Standard? Canadian Standard? The standard range whips I've seen have #8 wires and a 50 amp cord end.(CSA configuration 14-50P) Mabey there is a bigger cord available with #6 ? It would still have to have the 50amp cord end on it.

Quote:
26-744(4) Where a range having a calculated demand of 50amps or less, receptacle 14-50R shall be installed.


Even smaller ranges have the 50amp cord on them. I had a customer who wanted to remove a bunch of old, hardwired ranges and have receptacles installed for the new ones. The old ones were wired with #10 on 30amp breakers.(small apartment sized ranges)Re-wiring would be a huge job(300+units)and the new apt sized ranges came with the 50amp cord. Had the inspector come out. He said I could install the 50amp receptacles(14-50R standard) on the old wire and showed me those codes in 26-744. I also had to leave them on the 30amp breakers. Keep in mind that this was an odd situation and a full sized range would never fit in these little apartments.


Edited by Eddy Current (01/06/09 07:50 PM)
Edit Reason: I can't spell

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#183403 - 01/08/09 11:33 AM Re: 17KW Free Standing Range [Re: Eddy Current]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
eddy
The standard "Domestic use only" range cord has #10 neutrals and #8 hots. I agree that in all the cases the range receptacle is 50 amp and usually the only difference is the breaker. The stove described in this discussion requires a different cord than the lower rated stoves. The wire in the wall is the same, the receptacle is the same and the plug is the same configuration but there must be some difference in the cord or the part numbers and manufacturers instruction would be the same too.

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