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#182567 - 12/02/08 03:30 PM Any Electricians on here from NZ
Nev Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Vic Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in Australia and am having continuous augments/Debates on another forum as to why NZ homeowners can do electrical work unlicensed on there own home

Here in Australia an unlicensed person cannot do any electrical work at all.

The debate is the in NZ they use the same wiring regulations and since the NZ government allowed the homeowner to do limited electrical work the amount of deaths by electrical accidents have decreased.

The augment on the Australian forum is if this is the case why don't the Australian Government allow the home owner to DIY electrical work

From what I can find out the NZ Government allowed this to help get rid of faulty and dangerous fittings which in turn created a safer environment

Can someone shed some light on the NZ way of doing things

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#182573 - 12/02/08 05:50 PM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Nev]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Nev:
Good day, and welcome to ECN!
Our resident NZ guy (Trumpy) is on assignment at a sub-station job for about a week. Hopefully, he may check in and respond to you.

I can tell you that here in New Jersey, USA that a homeowner that owns and resides in a single family home can do his own electrical & plumbing work, with a required permit.

That does not apply to anything other than single (1) family homes. NOT rentals, condo's, multi-family, or any commercial properties.

Take care & stay safe.
_________________________
John

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#182577 - 12/02/08 09:18 PM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Nev]
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 221
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Nev
on another forum

That wouldn't be http://www.renovateforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78
by any chance would it?
It's also been a hot topic in "Silicon Chip" magazine for a couple of years now.
One gets the impression from reading the threads there that there is a still a closed shop attitude and that's the real reason. That most of the world doesn't have such restrictions, and any more problems as a result, always meets with a blank response. One excuse that comes up is that U.S homeowners are at less risk because of the 120V supply, and Australians mustn't be let near something so deadly as 240V for their own safety. The fact that U.S homes do actually have 240V fed into them is conveniently ignored.
At this point in time the union power in Australia is just too strong and I don't see common sense coming to fruition for quite some time. In the meantime, Australians will continue to do electrical DIY as they have always done (bad and good work), so it's not like there's suddenly going to be loss of jobs for the tradies.
The sensible response is to follow the NZ model, and educate rather than deny.

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#182634 - 12/05/08 01:47 AM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Nev]
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Nev
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in Australia and am having continuous augments/Debates on another forum as to why NZ homeowners can do electrical work unlicensed on there own home.


For a description of what is and what is not allowed to be done here by a home-owner, a read of New Zealand Electrical Code Of Practice 51 should be read.
Clicking on this link will download you a copy of it.


Quote:
The debate is the in NZ they use the same wiring regulations and since the NZ government allowed the homeowner to do limited electrical work the amount of deaths by electrical accidents have decreased.


Nev, that is not entirely true, both countries use AS/NZS 3000 (and a few others) for wiring installations.
These are wiring standards, not regulations in the true legislative sense.

New Zealand still has it's own NZ Electricity Regulations and these are totally separate to any Australian regulations or even state-wide laws.


Quote:
From what I can find out the NZ Government allowed this to help get rid of faulty and dangerous fittings which in turn created a safer environment.


Nope,
In 1992, the electrical industry was de-regulated here,
it had nothing to do with safety to the end-user of electricity or in fact the safety of fittings or other things, we still get shonky electrical stuff coming into the country and it is being installed by people that buy it at the DIY store.


BTW, welcome to ECN, mate! wink


Edited by Trumpy (12/05/08 01:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Typo's
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#182760 - 12/09/08 09:57 AM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Trumpy]
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Welcome to the forum Nev. smile

While comparing Australia and New Zealand, consider the situation here in the U.K. too. Until very recently there were absolutely no controls here over who could do what on his own electrical installation whatsoever.

Since January 2005, however, legislation has brought certain electrical works under the scope of our general Building Regulations, requiring that certain things either be carried out by a suitably accredited person or be reported to the local council for inspection, as with many other building matters. It has done nothing to reduce the number of fatalities; in fact it appeared a while ago that they had increased:

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/for...s_on#Post146542

But even if permits or inspections are required, as a matter of principle I do not believe a government has any right to tell a person that he may not carry out any work he wishes on his own house. Requiring it to be done to a certain standard is one thing, but laws prohibiting you from working on your own property have no place in a free country.

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#182832 - 12/13/08 06:56 AM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: pauluk]
Nev Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Vic Australia
The Argument I'm having here in Australia is that supposable when the industry was deregulated in NZ the number of electrical related deaths decreased.

That being the case why wont the Australian Government allow Homeowners to DIY electrical work as Australia supposedly has the highest death rate in the world and uses the same regulations.

The Argument I'm face with if the Australian Government allowed the homeowner to DIY electrical work the death rate would decreases as it supposable did in NZ

In My opinion thats like saying if the road speed limit was done away with the road death toll would decrease


Edited by Nev (12/13/08 06:57 AM)

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#182834 - 12/13/08 08:25 AM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: pauluk]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: pauluk
Welcome to the forum Nev. smile

While comparing Australia and New Zealand, consider the situation here in the U.K. too. Until very recently there were absolutely no controls here over who could do what on his own electrical installation whatsoever.

Since January 2005, however, legislation has brought certain electrical works under the scope of our general Building Regulations, requiring that certain things either be carried out by a suitably accredited person or be reported to the local council for inspection, as with many other building matters. It has done nothing to reduce the number of fatalities; in fact it appeared a while ago that they had increased:

http://www.electrical-contractor.net/for...s_on#Post146542

But even if permits or inspections are required, as a matter of principle I do not believe a government has any right to tell a person that he may not carry out any work he wishes on his own house. Requiring it to be done to a certain standard is one thing, but laws prohibiting you from working on your own property have no place in a free country.




The only thing about those figures is that the raw numbers are so small that changes are statistically insignificant and could simply reflect things like a building boom or just pure chance.

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#182879 - 12/15/08 02:41 PM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Nev]
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Nev
The Argument I'm having here in Australia is that supposable when the industry was deregulated in NZ the number of electrical related deaths decreased.

Nev,
I'd like to see some figures that back that claim up.
I can't find any statistics off-hand that go that far back, to 1990 and forward to say, 1994 and I would be interested to see where these figures were referenced from.

I have sent an e-mail to the ESS here and will see what they can tell me.
Also bear in mind that there has been a few changes to the electrical safety regime here in this period of time,
accident reporting systems are also a lot more advanced here than what they were back then too.

Paul,
I have to agree with you when you say that any Government should not have the right to say what you can and cannot do in your own place.
However,
I would draw the line in this circumstance, where the work done by a person in their own house, could affect the safety of other users on the same electricity network.
I know something like this is rather rare, but it has happened before.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#182884 - 12/15/08 08:12 PM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: Trumpy]
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 221
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Trumpy

I would draw the line in this circumstance, where the work done by a person in their own house, could affect the safety of other users on the same electricity network.
I know something like this is rather rare, but it has happened before.

Trumpy,
Can you elaborate on this? You've got me trying to imagine what kinds of domestic DIY wiring faults could cause problems further back in the system. Provided the main fuse is not bypassed or upgraded (is that where the problem is?), any overloads or short circuits will only affect the consumer side of the fuse. Mixing up earths and phases will again blow local fuses, whereas earths and neutrals mixed will have no effect on the supply as these should already be connected together at the neutral link.

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#182887 - 12/16/08 01:30 AM Re: Any Electricians on here from NZ [Re: aussie240]
ramsy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 35
Loc: LA basin, CA
There are some issues with the IEC 60364 defined TN-C-S earthing system in my region:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

1) High-impedance ground faults pass thru fuses, so plumbing networks --and bonded Earthing system-- across several buildings, are sometimes hazardously energized.

2) In addition to plumbing bonds, my region requires any coax-cable TV to bond at consumer D-Mark. So the coax cable ground sheath provides another high-impedance fault path for energized injury between buildings.

3) Remote harmonic distortions menacing other customers has also been reported to propagate some distance along this earthing network.
_________________________
Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay.info

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