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#181085 - 09/22/08 10:26 AM Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS)
brianl703 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 165
Loc: Manassas, VA
I've had the displeasure of seeing a couple of Verizon FIOS installs. In both cases the installer disconnected the coax going into the house from the ground block. That's fine. What isn't fine is that they also remove the cable TV drop from the ground block and remove the ground block itself, cutting the ground wire to the ground block and leaving an ungrounded cable TV drop in the house box. (FIOS installers do NOT ground the coax leaving the ONT, presumably upon the theory that the ONT is fed with fiber and the coax leaving it does not need to be grounded).

I think this is a big deal because even though the cable TV drop is disconnected from the house coax wiring it could still present a safety hazard if it becomes energized.

Also the metal shell of the connector on the end of the cable TV drop could be touching a splitter or another metal connector inside the house box causing the house wiring to become energized if the cable TV coax drop does.

Any thoughts on this? If this is common practice for FIOS installers this is a definite problem, IMHO.


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#181091 - 09/22/08 02:02 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: brianl703]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I guess they don't care if lightning blows up their set top boxes. Our cable (Comcast) has a Dmark box on the wall outside with surge protection and bonded to my GES.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#181094 - 09/22/08 02:35 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: brianl703]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
This is a huge issue, resulting in the State of New York instituting a field inspection task force. This is not only happening with Verizon's FIOS, but apparently at&t's "U-Verse" installations are resulting in the same shoddy workmanship in other areas. I just had a long phone conversation with my son who is a CATV installer in the Atalanta area for the same reason.

These folks come in assuming that they are the top-dog that is taking over the premises. They do this with under-trained installers or drones doing what they are told. What they are attempting to do is to lock-down the address as being only serviceable by this new service. Basically, a new owner or occupant will have no choice but to subscribe to this new, unregulated service. They even go so far as to destroy the copper telephone facilities by either cutting down the aerial drop or buried drop the premises. They can get away with this since they are working for Verizon.

They can't do this since they don't work for the CATV service provider, so all they can do is disconnect it and leave it hanging in the breeze, but they still do. Again, under-trained drones being instructed to steal the address as quickly as possible.

So what this comes down to is that I am living in 7913 Main Street, but I decide to move out and rent my house out at this same address. Verizon (the regulated copper service provider) no longer has 7913 as a service address. The only Verizon service available is FIOS.

As you can see from this example, Verizon is trying to get out of the regulated telephone utility business and is doing so by making it impossible for customers to buy anything else. It is a crime and will likely result in a class-action lawsuit. I doubt it will ever win, since Verizon has more money than God to fight anyone in court. Hey, they already abandoned all of their copper service territories in New England by simply selling them to an incapable company from Alabama who was the highest bidder for the territory. It is a sad state of affairs for the consumer.

Apparently, once FIOS or U-Verse takes over and permanently removes a physical address from their regulated territory, they are no longer under obligation to bring that same address back on. Be careful when purchasing these products; be VERY careful!
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#181099 - 09/22/08 04:22 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: EV607797]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Thanks ED.
Fios is being strung in my neighborhood now. I get at least two to three mailers a week to 'sign-up'. Full tilt for <$100 month, for 12 months. How much after 12 mo.; ?? not a clue, except 'regular rates'. Asked twice what regular rates are....call ctr had no clue.

The pkg is TV/Phone & Internet, I have DSL, so I get a 'break'..$10 off for six months! Can I keep DSL & only get TV? pause...'ah'...pause...'hold on pls'.....'not at present time, pkg only.

Now that you said 'bye-bye copper'.....I think I'm staying as-is. Comcast & DSL
_________________________
John

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#181111 - 09/22/08 09:50 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: HotLine1]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
John:

Sorry to sound so negative on this subject again, but the word needs to be spread. Anyone seeking additional information is welcome to contact me here via private messaging or right here in this thread for that matter.

Buy it and try it, but if you do so, by all means be there when their "installer" shows up. Make sure that you let them know that if they disable the existing copper facilities, then you will cancel the order before they get started. Watch them as they pull up and make sure that they come to your door FIRST. The minute that they clip that cable, you are no longer a Verizon customer, but now a FIOS customer. FIOS is great, but they can change the rates whenever they feel like it and you have no choice but to pay whatever they want. FIOS is not a regulated utility like Verizon, the dial tone provider.

Verizon and at&t are secretly building unregulated networks that can be bought and sold like buildings. They are carefully doing this by wooing existing customers into their spider web from which they cannot escape. Once a customer is roped in, they become a pawn in their game against the regulated utility requirements.

This is why property owners who go with FIOS and then rent out their property screw their tenant or future purchasers of the property if they sell. The tenant or future property owner can't just order a POTS line anymore since the address is no longer a Verizon service address. The renter or new property owner must purchase a FIOS package to get phone service.

Verizon and Verizon-FIOS are two different companies. Since Verizon still has full run of their service territories, they can sneak in and talk customers into letting them out of the state/county regulated utility business. Verizon is one confusing name to end-users. Big problems for Joe Average trusting anyone. Rest assured, a FIOS customer service rep won't be able to assist you with an issue on your cell phone account. Just like GM, your Chevy isn't a Cadillac, even though they technically come from the same company.

Also, just as an added note: Fax machines, credit card terminals, modems, fire or security alarm systems or any analog data transmission is hit-or-miss on FIOS, U-Verse or any other VOIP-based service.

I urge anyone who is considering any "new and improved" services from your local telephone company using product names such as FIOS or U-Verse, etc. to ensure that your property remains connected to the PSTN via copper. If you allow this to be disconnected, then regulated state and federal pricing structures go out the window and you are bound to pay anything that your new service provider charges. You also waive your option to select the service provider of your choice in the future. You are bound to FIOS or U-Verse forever and have no other choice in alternative service providers. Sorry for the "gloom and doom" here, but people need to wake up and pay attention. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Pay the realistic rate that you have been paying for your traditional phone service. Don't make an irreversible decision.
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#181112 - 09/22/08 10:07 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: EV607797]
brianl703 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 165
Loc: Manassas, VA
I am a landlord and my tenant ordered FIOS and Verizon installed it without my permission. They did indeed cut the cable to the demarc and, as I mentioned, removed the CATV ground block.

Do I have any recourse? (I'm in the process of making my tenant an ex-tenant since the rent has not been paid). My rental agreement with the tenant clearly indicates that any alterations to the property are to be approved by the landlord, and FIOS is an alteration to the property.

I'm about ready to de-install the FIOS junk myself and tell Verizon that it'll be in a box in the front yard and to come get it. I'll do the de-installation "flat-rate" style with a crowbar.

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#181113 - 09/22/08 10:12 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: EV607797]
brianl703 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 165
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: EV607797

Apparently, once FIOS or U-Verse takes over and permanently removes a physical address from their regulated territory, they are no longer under obligation to bring that same address back on.


What if the ONT keeps getting fried due to some strange problem with 240V being applied to the ONT's power input wires?

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#181130 - 09/23/08 02:49 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: brianl703]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6785
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Ed:
Thanks for the additional input.

Brian:
You're speaking 'greek' telco terms...what's an ONT?
_________________________
John

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#181137 - 09/23/08 05:11 PM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: HotLine1]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
"Optical Network Terminal". These are used to terminate the fiber and break out the voice, data and video services. They have internal batteries to provide about four hours of service without power. They also have a wall-wart power supply that powers the ONT under normal conditions. Yes, the Verizon rocket scientists manage to install these too. I've never seen that part of one of their installations, but I can only imagine. Gone are the days of the phone working when the power is out for a day or more.

ONT's are similar to the traditional copper "NID" (Network Interface Device"), only much larger in size.
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#181167 - 09/24/08 05:22 AM Re: Removing the cable TV ground block(FIOS) [Re: EV607797]
n1ist Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 176
Loc: Malden MA
I have had FIOS salesguys come by twice. They have gone as far as telling me that the copper plant is deteriorating and will not be maintained, and that come 2/2009 my phones will stop working unless I convert to digital :-) According to them, it is better for each customer to have the battery backup (not maintained) in the ONT than for them to maintain one at the CO... They are always shocked when I tell them that I want to keep my copper pair and get mad when I kick them out.

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