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#180254 - 08/19/08 05:35 PM new company and country = new rules and codes
hoppyih Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 8
Loc: arizona but moving to London o...
hey all, I"ve been back home, london ontario, now for about 4 months and have seen some serious diferences in both companies and codes. When i was living and working in Arizona, i learned the NEC very well, aced all of my exams while in an apprenticeship. But now moving back I'm almost floored with some of the code differences. Like I'm not even joking I've had my co-workers just laugh when i'm doing underground or even resi work. For instance i can't even count the number of times i've seen no ground in emt because " technically there is a ground with the metal conduit". Quite honestly i wouldn't trust it alone.
Maybe it's just me but the company that i came from, before deportation, did everything to the nth degree, know i get the wierdest looks for going over kill.
But that's not to say I haven't been learning the CEC version aswell.
How's this for a laugh though, after my interview i asked for the latest edition of the CEC, I was told you wouldn't need it because you going to be a probie for 3 months anyways. i laughed my ass off and still asked later for it.

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2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#180262 - 08/19/08 08:41 PM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: hoppyih]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
EMT is a legal EGC in the US.

Now those Canadian rules where 14/3 is permitted for split kitchen small appliance circuit receptacles and those silly sideways-mounted panels make me shake in my boots. Oh, and the isolated mains area of the panel humors me as well.

Running dual 15 amp circuits to kitchen receptacles, 240 volts on the same device yoke is OK, but it's dangerous to have the main breaker area of the panel to be exposed when the cover is removed?

Hey, at least we drive on the same side of the road or things would be much more complicated.

_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#180267 - 08/20/08 05:16 AM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: EV607797]
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
Ontari doesn't work on the CEC . It uses its own revised version called the OESC - Ontario Electrical Safety Code.

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#180272 - 08/20/08 09:31 AM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: jdevlin]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
In BC it is the CEC as amended for BC.
With the recent requirement for GFCI protection within 1.5 meters (5 ft.) of all sinks there are fewer and fewer split receptacles being installed in kitchens and we are using 20A t Slot plugs with a gfci outlet. Still no more than 2 outlets on a kitchen circuit. With the arc hazard emphasis these days I like the main breaker section covers. It allows work in the panel with almost no chance of accidental contact with the incoming lines hot. In a service entry it improves the safety for the electrician as a service conductor fault might feed a long time if relying on the utility primary fuse to blow.
EMT is an excellent bonding conductor and will carry 1/2 the fault current even when a lower impedance copper bonding conductor is installed.
As long as you are pointing out differences the Canadian code has at least prevented appliance makers from using the neutral for bonding. I think most new US made ranges have 4 wire cords now?
Given that we both use the same basic distribution I am surprised the two codes are not almost the same. I really think the US code is written by lawyers and the Canadian code by electricians and engineers who are trying to write rules like lawyers.
For the most part US and Canadian electricians make similar installations. Now if only you could get rid of all those electrical workers. You know the ones I mean; carpenters, plumbers, guys off the street, etc.

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#180273 - 08/20/08 11:06 AM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: mikesh]
dougwells Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1226
Loc: kamloops BC Canada
Dont be surprised to see that barrier in the NEC in the future... I know its been put before the nec committee or what ever their called.

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#180289 - 08/20/08 05:11 PM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: mikesh]
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
 Originally Posted By: mikesh
With the arc hazard emphasis these days I like the main breaker section covers. It allows work in the panel with almost no chance of accidental contact with the incoming lines hot.


I can't disagree there. It just looks so sloppy when all of the branch circuits must enter through the sides and bottom of the panel (or mount it horizontally) which we can't do. The "on" position of a breaker has to be either up or sideways (horizontal), but can't be down, meaning that a panel mounted horizontally wouldn't be permissible since half of the breakers would be a violation.

 Originally Posted By: mikesh
As long as you are pointing out differences the Canadian code has at least prevented appliance makers from using the neutral for bonding. I think most new US made ranges have 4 wire cords now?


Sort of. Ranges and dryers aren't actually shipped with cords attached, but they are equipped to work with 3- or 4-wire circuits with a bonding strap modification. If someone buys a new range or dryer, they still must purchase the appropriate cord set to match their existing receptacle. The only time that 4-wire circuits were required in the past was when the circuit originated from a sub panel. Now, 4-wire is standard but we still have to provide the cord separately. They will have to allow existing circuit installations to be "grandfathered". It's unrealistic to expect a homeowner to have to run a new circuit if they purchase a replacement appliance. Even if that was a requirement, I guarantee that 90% of the DIY'ers wouldn't do it.

 Originally Posted By: mikesh
Given that we both use the same basic distribution I am surprised the two codes are not almost the same. I really think the US code is written by lawyers and the Canadian code by electricians and engineers who are trying to write rules like lawyers.


It's generally understood that the manufacturers of electrical hardware and cable call the shots in the preparation of changes to the NEC. Some of the 2008 code changes are painfully obvious of this fact.

 Originally Posted By: mikesh
For the most part US and Canadian electricians make similar installations. Now if only you could get rid of all those electrical workers. You know the ones I mean; carpenters, plumbers, guys off the street, etc.


You figure that one out and I'm moving to Canada myself!
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#180297 - 08/20/08 08:43 PM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: mikesh]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 892
Loc: Regina, Sask.
 Originally Posted By: mikesh
I really think the US code is written by lawyers and the Canadian code by electricians and engineers who are trying to write rules like lawyers.

I thought it was the infinite monkey theorem:
 Quote:
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William ShakespeareCanadian Electrical Code.

I take exception to the disregard for Appendix C12 by the drafters of the code. It's almost like they don't try.

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#180301 - 08/21/08 05:45 AM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: EV607797]
jdevlin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 402
Loc: welland ontario canada
 Originally Posted By: EV607797
 Originally Posted By: mikesh
For the most part US and Canadian electricians make similar installations. Now if only you could get rid of all those electrical workers. You know the ones I mean; carpenters, plumbers, guys off the street, etc.


You figure that one out and I'm moving to Canada myself!

It's been done in Ontario. Only provincially licenced elcectrical contractors are permitted to do electrical work in Ontario unless you are working on your own home.
In Quebec home owners can't even do their work legally.

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#180346 - 08/22/08 01:43 PM Re: new company and country = new rules and codes [Re: jdevlin]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Gordon Campbell takes his trades advice from a drywall contractor who thinks they should be able to wire and board at the same time. Fortunately we still have a requirement for trade certification in BC. Her only a homeowner in a fully detached Single family dwelling can get a home owner permit and even there it can be a problem.

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