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#17757 - 12/02/02 01:17 PM Conflict
rowdyrudy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
I have a 1,700 sq. ft. unfinished basement. I have an infrared sauna, sump pump, water softener, outlet for sewage treatment aerator, two treadmills, central vac outlet, security system outlet, misc other outlets.
Sauna is dedicated circuit as is central vac, so no problem with them. Sump says ""do not connect to GFI protected recpt", aerator says same, ditto for treadmills. Security system mfr says do not utilize GFI circuit. This is a typical instance where the code sections (250-?)are nonsensical with no valid reason for demanding GFI's in unfinished basements. BTW, a special tulip bulb cooler of my wife's trips a GFI. The mfr, when contacted, indicated that GFI connection to the unit was improper. I suppose the code makers would tell me that I can't use those products in the basement. There are numerous conflicts throughout the NEC that have no rationalization in the real world.
Rowdy

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#17758 - 12/02/02 01:59 PM Re: Conflict
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
 Quote:
There are numerous conflicts throughout the NEC that have no rationalization in the real world


probably why it is so commonly refered to as the 'Bible' .....

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#17759 - 12/02/02 04:21 PM Re: Conflict
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
Sparky, no disrespect, but I find no conflicts in the Bible. It is the way we look at it, is why we think it conflicts itself. As we often state, it is hard for someone who has no experience or little experience in electrical work, to understand the technique of wiring. The same way it is with the Bible. Until one has experienced the life of the Giver, it is hard to understand the "interpertation" of the message that He sends. As far as having no rationalization with the "real world", it's the ONLY thing that DOES have Rationalization. It's the only thing that tells me where I came from, where I'm at, and where I'm going. With no disregards, I believe it has the "real thing" that the world is really thirsting after. Though there are many counterfeit dollars, there has to be a "genuine" for it to be counterfeited by..... \:\)

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#17760 - 12/02/02 04:44 PM Re: Conflict
spyder Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Massachusetts
Can't you run your appliances in question on singele recptacle dedicated circuits and not be in conflict with the NEC?

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#17761 - 12/02/02 05:01 PM Re: Conflict
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
sparkync,
not a good anology, my bad.....

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#17762 - 12/02/02 07:31 PM Re: Conflict
Electric Eagle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 928
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
As someone was stating, the code allows for single recptacles under constant use to be non-GFCI. So for any of these just use a single outlet or even a duplex if both sockets are under constant use. see 2002 NEC 210.8, read the exceptions.

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#17763 - 12/03/02 04:03 AM Re: Conflict
rowdyrudy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
I think what got me goin' was the meeting on Friday with the county guru's. I have been trying for 8 years to get ordinances passed for code enforcement and inspections in the county. The board was lying in wait for me. They had stats that there had been no injuries or fatalities in the county area within the previous 20 years attributed to lack of GFI in garages, basements, or kitchens. Fires where there were fatalities were all gas, oil, or lightning with only one exception, a farmer who raised a fork lift into a power line. They used the argument that building cost would increase by up to $1,000 for a 1,500 sq. ft. home. I was touting safety and they negated all rationality with statistics. There will never be inspections in this county as long as 80 YO farmers control the boards and the NEC is based too much on commercial/industrial that has eased over into the residential area. Common sense has deserted the board as well as some of the code committes.
Sorry for the rant but I'm pissed.
Rowdy

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#17764 - 12/03/02 04:08 AM Re: Conflict
spyder Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Massachusetts
I don't think GFCI recptacles break the bank and they do provide an essential layer of safety, especially in kitchens, bathrooms, and outside areas.

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#17765 - 12/04/02 11:57 AM Re: Conflict
SJT Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 242
Loc: PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
I think as far as the GFCI thing goes- if you have a permanent piece of equip. installed into a single receptacle you wouldn't need the GFCI outlet. If they are going to be in the basement area, then you could have other receptacles that are GFCI protected. That should satisfy the code.

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#17766 - 12/04/02 12:46 PM Re: Conflict
rmiell Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/00
Posts: 261
Loc: La Junta, Co. USA
RowdyRudy,
I know how it is when dealing with local committees and boards. Why do you have to get the county to do these inspections? In Colorado, where I'm at, the State does the inspections unless a local authority does them, within the state's guidelines. No local authority? Then the State does it.

As far as the code making committees goes, and the NEC in general, they continue to do an impressive job of making our electrical world better and safer.

Whatever problem you have with the code, you should be stiving to get a code changed, not ranting on forums, which will get you nowhere. Submit a code change, with a good explaination of why the change is needed, and there is a good chance you will see your handiwork in future editions of the NEC. However, saying "I think you are all stupid, and this is what the code should say" is not a good way to do it. Have valid reasons for want a code changed. There is a sample code change proposal in the codebook.

You might even try to become one of the code making gurus. It is a hard process, and might take some politicing on your part, but it is possible. Then you could be one of those "without common sense". LOL

good luck, and remember, if you are serious about electrical safety, you, by yourself, can make a difference.

Rick Miell

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