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#17757 - 12/02/02 05:17 PM Conflict  
rowdyrudy  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
Mascoutah, IL USA
I have a 1,700 sq. ft. unfinished basement. I have an infrared sauna, sump pump, water softener, outlet for sewage treatment aerator, two treadmills, central vac outlet, security system outlet, misc other outlets.
Sauna is dedicated circuit as is central vac, so no problem with them. Sump says ""do not connect to GFI protected recpt", aerator says same, ditto for treadmills. Security system mfr says do not utilize GFI circuit. This is a typical instance where the code sections (250-?)are nonsensical with no valid reason for demanding GFI's in unfinished basements. BTW, a special tulip bulb cooler of my wife's trips a GFI. The mfr, when contacted, indicated that GFI connection to the unit was improper. I suppose the code makers would tell me that I can't use those products in the basement. There are numerous conflicts throughout the NEC that have no rationalization in the real world.
Rowdy


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#17758 - 12/02/02 05:59 PM Re: Conflict  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Quote
There are numerous conflicts throughout the NEC that have no rationalization in the real world


probably why it is so commonly refered to as the 'Bible' .....


#17759 - 12/02/02 08:21 PM Re: Conflict  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 812
NC
Sparky, no disrespect, but I find no conflicts in the Bible. It is the way we look at it, is why we think it conflicts itself. As we often state, it is hard for someone who has no experience or little experience in electrical work, to understand the technique of wiring. The same way it is with the Bible. Until one has experienced the life of the Giver, it is hard to understand the "interpertation" of the message that He sends. As far as having no rationalization with the "real world", it's the ONLY thing that DOES have Rationalization. It's the only thing that tells me where I came from, where I'm at, and where I'm going. With no disregards, I believe it has the "real thing" that the world is really thirsting after. Though there are many counterfeit dollars, there has to be a "genuine" for it to be counterfeited by..... smile


#17760 - 12/02/02 08:44 PM Re: Conflict  
spyder  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 210
Massachusetts
Can't you run your appliances in question on singele recptacle dedicated circuits and not be in conflict with the NEC?


#17761 - 12/02/02 09:01 PM Re: Conflict  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
sparkync,
not a good anology, my bad.....


#17762 - 12/02/02 11:31 PM Re: Conflict  
Electric Eagle  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
As someone was stating, the code allows for single recptacles under constant use to be non-GFCI. So for any of these just use a single outlet or even a duplex if both sockets are under constant use. see 2002 NEC 210.8, read the exceptions.


#17763 - 12/03/02 08:03 AM Re: Conflict  
rowdyrudy  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
Mascoutah, IL USA
I think what got me goin' was the meeting on Friday with the county guru's. I have been trying for 8 years to get ordinances passed for code enforcement and inspections in the county. The board was lying in wait for me. They had stats that there had been no injuries or fatalities in the county area within the previous 20 years attributed to lack of GFI in garages, basements, or kitchens. Fires where there were fatalities were all gas, oil, or lightning with only one exception, a farmer who raised a fork lift into a power line. They used the argument that building cost would increase by up to $1,000 for a 1,500 sq. ft. home. I was touting safety and they negated all rationality with statistics. There will never be inspections in this county as long as 80 YO farmers control the boards and the NEC is based too much on commercial/industrial that has eased over into the residential area. Common sense has deserted the board as well as some of the code committes.
Sorry for the rant but I'm pissed.
Rowdy


#17764 - 12/03/02 08:08 AM Re: Conflict  
spyder  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 210
Massachusetts
I don't think GFCI recptacles break the bank and they do provide an essential layer of safety, especially in kitchens, bathrooms, and outside areas.


#17765 - 12/04/02 03:57 PM Re: Conflict  
SJT  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
I think as far as the GFCI thing goes- if you have a permanent piece of equip. installed into a single receptacle you wouldn't need the GFCI outlet. If they are going to be in the basement area, then you could have other receptacles that are GFCI protected. That should satisfy the code.


#17766 - 12/04/02 04:46 PM Re: Conflict  
rmiell  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 242
La Junta, Co. USA
RowdyRudy,
I know how it is when dealing with local committees and boards. Why do you have to get the county to do these inspections? In Colorado, where I'm at, the State does the inspections unless a local authority does them, within the state's guidelines. No local authority? Then the State does it.

As far as the code making committees goes, and the NEC in general, they continue to do an impressive job of making our electrical world better and safer.

Whatever problem you have with the code, you should be stiving to get a code changed, not ranting on forums, which will get you nowhere. Submit a code change, with a good explaination of why the change is needed, and there is a good chance you will see your handiwork in future editions of the NEC. However, saying "I think you are all stupid, and this is what the code should say" is not a good way to do it. Have valid reasons for want a code changed. There is a sample code change proposal in the codebook.

You might even try to become one of the code making gurus. It is a hard process, and might take some politicing on your part, but it is possible. Then you could be one of those "without common sense". LOL

good luck, and remember, if you are serious about electrical safety, you, by yourself, can make a difference.

Rick Miell


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