The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Today at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
2 registered (Radar, LongRunner), 224 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#175753 - 03/10/08 02:43 PM bond for pool
eddiecurrent Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 8
Loc: fl
i got a call to check pool lights for a costumer and noticed there was no #8 ground wire on any of the 2 pumps, lights, heaters, transformers,or sub panel.i didn't see any #8 solid at all in the sub panel.there was a stranded #8 or 10 from main panel.no ground rods at sub. they said the house was 6-8 years old.everything had lugs big enough for #8 including pumps.

my question is- does anyone know the codes for pool bond about 9-12 years ago?
i don't mess with pools much and am a new contractor.
i don't have code books past 2002.
since it's a ingrond concrete pool would the concrete act as a ground for the light, railing, and screen enclosure?
thanx for ur help.............

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#175756 - 03/10/08 03:14 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: eddiecurrent]
KJay Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
The #8 solid bonding requirement for pools has been in the code longer than I have been in the trade, and that’s since the early 1980's.
The #8 doesn’t need to go back to the panel, it only bonds the pool associated equipment together to create the equipotential bonding grid.

Top
#175758 - 03/10/08 03:20 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: KJay]
eddiecurrent Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 8
Loc: fl
same grid meaning light, transformer, pool pumps, railing,heater, screen enclosure,etc. right?

Top
#175759 - 03/10/08 04:04 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: eddiecurrent]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
You should also be picking up the rebar in the pool shell. If you don't see some #8 solid anywhere I am guessing this was not built with a permit. The bonding should have been inspected at least twice and maybe 3 times
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#175775 - 03/11/08 05:15 AM Re: bond for pool [Re: gfretwell]
BPHgravity Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Port Charlotte, Florida
We do three bonding inspections here in North Port. One at the shell, on at the deck, and one at the final.

I agree with Greg. If metal parts of the pool are not included in with the rest of the equipotential grid, such as shell steel, deck steel, metal handrails, niche light forming shell, metal within 5' of the water, ect..., a shock potential will be established between conductive parts.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

Top
#175778 - 03/11/08 06:50 AM Re: bond for pool [Re: BPHgravity]
Mike Wescoatt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/01
Posts: 164
Loc: Cedar City, Utah
2002 NEC 680.26
The following needs to be bonded:
1. Metallic structural components
2. Underwater lighting (except listed LV w/ non-metallic forming shells)
3. Metal fittings (except for fittitng <4" in dimension that penetrate <1" into pool structure)
4. Electrical Equipment
5. Metal wiring methods and equipment within 5' horiz or 12' vertically

(c) ...with a solid copper conductor, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8AWG.

hth. Mike
_________________________
Mike Wescoatt

Top
#175788 - 03/11/08 12:55 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: BPHgravity]
eddiecurrent Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 8
Loc: fl
the same grid means all brought back to same ground bar or can the pumps be taken off pool panel and the rest be bonded to a ground rod???

Top
#175789 - 03/11/08 01:39 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: eddiecurrent]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
NOT GROUNDED. Just "bonded".

1 solid #8 from point to point to point unbroken. so essentialy they become 1 piece of metal, all of the same potential.

Top
#175803 - 03/11/08 05:28 PM Re: bond for pool [Re: leland]
BPHgravity Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Port Charlotte, Florida
The pool is already in contact with the Earth. Grounding of the pool and equipment will serve no purpose. The equipment grounding of the equipment will provide the effective fault path back to the source, while the equipotential bonding "shorts" out the battery created by the metal pool parts.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

Top
#176017 - 03/18/08 04:09 AM Re: bond for pool [Re: BPHgravity]
SteveFehr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1192
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
That, and although water and earth are conductors, they're relatively poor conductors and can still set up a situation where a swimmer becomes a current carrier, which is far more dangerous in a pool than anywhere else due to the reduced skin resistance, nature of the circuit (current is very likely to pass through the heart), difficulty of breaking contact, high potential to drown, and difficulty of rescue as anyone trying to conduct a rescue would be at the same risk.

The equipotential bond ensures there will be no equipotential difference within the pool and pool area, so that even if a short were to occur, the entire pool will be at the same potential and no dangerous amounts of current can flow through the water.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals