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#174685 - 02/11/08 03:45 PM Complete guide to wiring a housing development!
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Here's the complete Irish guide for wiring a housing development. This lays out everything the builder needs to do for a smooth installation of underground cables, distribution mini pillars, xformers etc..

http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/electrical_services_guidebook_dtis_050500_azf.pdf

How does it compare to practice where you are?


Edited by djk (02/11/08 03:46 PM)

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#174696 - 02/11/08 06:44 PM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: djk]
trollog Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 273
Loc: San Diego California USA
of the warnings on page 10, the first would definitely need to be in Spanish and likely the second as well.. \:\) Not that it would help much in the second case. Backhoes seem to love hitting pipe.

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#174706 - 02/12/08 03:14 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: trollog]
Chris Simms Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Cohutta Ga
(Backhoes seem to love hitting pipe. )
Like a tornado in a trailer park!

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#174712 - 02/12/08 07:05 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: djk]
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
I'm not sure if these notes about temporary building site supplies are rules or simply ESB's guidelines, but there are a couple of variations here:

 Quote:
Temporary Supplies and Portable Electrical Equipment:

5. All 400/230Volt supply leads must be screened, kept short and must be protected with an RCD.


No requirement for screened cables here, nor for RCD protection on feeders.

 Quote:
7. Hand lamps must not exceed 25Volts AC.


No such restriction here. 110V lamps are common.

Further on:

 Quote:
As part of the terms for connection, the developer is required to:

· Ensure the legal transfer of the site title to ESB free of charge in accordance with the provisions of Form H1., and ensure the substation site is not included in the sale to
house purchaser.


So ESB gets land for free? \:o

I know that if ESB had to pay proper market values for the land it would undoubtedly increase utility costs overall, but I still don't like the basic idea that it's a case of "give us the land, or no power."

 Quote:
The developer is required to:

· Provide and install an ESB approved outdoor meter cabinet, which must be continuously accessible to ESB and unobstructed by side gates. The cabinet must be installed
within two metres of the front line of the house and must be installed at a height of between 1 metre and 1.2 metres above finished ground level.


The current EDF rules here say that new meter cabinets must be installed on the front or side of the house, not be behind locked gates etc., but there is no distance limit back from the front line of the house.

I just did the new connections for a moved service on a nearby house with the cabinet installed on the side wall about 30 ft. back from the front line.

 Quote:
3. All new installations require a completion certificate.


They're not the slightest bit worried about that around here. The general approach nowadays is "once it leaves the meter, it's your responsibility."

I understand that in some areas of the country it's now standard practice to fit an isolator at the meter on all new installs, but again, they don't do it around here.

We have the extra problem of multiple supply companies and slightly crossing demarcation of responsibility to contend with. EDF is responsible for everything up to the main fuse/cutout, then it's up to your chosen supplier to have the metering installed and connected (which in most cases is subcontracted to Siemens metering). But EDF will still disconnect, move, and reconnect meters when it becomes a necessary part of moving a service to an existing building.

For completely new houses though, it's a case of EDF fitting everything up to the cutout and the supplier/Siemens coming along afterward to fit a meter and connect. The application forms for a new service now ask for supplier you plan to use.

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#174718 - 02/12/08 10:05 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: pauluk]
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2331
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Some things seem to be less restricted here... the main fuse box has to be accessible too, but the metering can be in a room in the cellar. I think the only restriction is you can't have meters inside apartments in new construction any more. Not much of a problem since most electricians seem to love grouped meters anyway (I can't understand why, but hey, they install the stuff...). Substations are usually located either on public grounds or inside the building (then the utility only gets the right to use that part of the property but does not own it). The latter is done in large building complexes but sometimes also in smaller houses (in densely built areas without space for individual transformer stations).

No such requirements for overhead wire guarding or site equipment either.

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#174782 - 02/13/08 11:49 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: Texas_Ranger]
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Internal meters still in some new-build apartments here as well. They're grouped in hallway service closet or some other communal area to which the PoCo/meter readers have easy access.

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#174800 - 02/14/08 12:42 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: pauluk]
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2331
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Typically all utilities are grouped somewhere in the cellar, you'll find a water meter room, an electrical meter room and maybe a gas meter room.
1950s to 1970s construction typically grouped the meters on each floor in a hallway closet. Prior to that the meters were installed inside the apartments.

Personally I really prefer having one or a few 25mm2 risers instead of a huge bundle of 5x10mm2 going to each apartment. If they get long enough you'll even have to upsize to 16mm2 or more to account for voltage drop... no thanks.
Pulling 20m 5x10mm2 through 40mm flexible conduit with at least 9 90 degree bends over two floors was one of my worst experiences when I worked for an electrical contractor. We ended up cutting open each conduit to pull on.

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#174871 - 02/16/08 12:32 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: Texas_Ranger]
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8530
Loc: SI,New Zealand
 Originally Posted By: Texas_Ranger
Personally I really prefer having one or a few 25mm2 risers instead of a huge bundle of 5x10mm2 going to each apartment. If they get long enough you'll even have to upsize to 16mm2 or more to account for voltage drop... no thanks.
Pulling 20m 5x10mm2 through 40mm flexible conduit with at least 9 90 degree bends over two floors was one of my worst experiences when I worked for an electrical contractor. We ended up cutting open each conduit to pull on.

9x 90 degree bends?
Mate, this is where poor planning gets you.
In all the planning work I've ever done, you look to make the work easier for those in the field.
I'm also all for the rising main idea, it makes sense, this could be why it's used the world over.
Djk,
That is a very good document, if people can't understand that, there is no helping folks.
Just one point about metering in this country, there are a lot of places here where the meters are still attached to the switch-board inside the house.
If there is an upgrade in size of service line here, regardless of wether the line is under-grounded or not, you are required to install a new meter enclosure on the outside of the house.
Oddly enough, the owner of the house has to pay for this.
Once the place has been hooked up again, if you have a large or dangerous dog, you will be asked to fence the side of your house off so that the meter-reader or Inspector will not be attacked by a vicious dog, this has happened in the past.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#174880 - 02/16/08 08:16 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: Trumpy]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Paul,

We've a number of utilities, ESB being the main one, that are classified as "essential utilities" and they have to be provided with land for free as part of any development. It's part of the conditions for granting planning permission.

So, not only would you not get power if you didn't agree to this, you also wouldn't get planning permission to build.

ESB also benefits from specific legislation that allows it to cross private lands without all that much fuss, provided they comply with health, safety and planning laws.

During the 1920s/30s when the ESB was first set up there were a load of problems with network rollout as people obstructed them legally. So, the state gave them some significant powers to access/cross and install equipment on private land with very little difficulty. You go for a judicial review of their decision, but in general, they got their way!

In contrast, P&T (the old phone company) had to stick to running cables along roads.

The rules about screening / RCDs and handlamps are Health and Safety Authority (HSA) or ETCI (Electrotechnical Council of Ireland) rules. Not just ESB guildelines.

Bear in mind though that ESB also acted as the electrical safety regulator and setter of technical standards too until that role was moved into the ETCI in 1972. ESB's still one of the major members of that organisation and provides significant funding and technical resources to it (including personnel).

We've opened the market to competition and ESB is now up against other operators and generators, but it remains to be seen how / if it will be privatised.

We had a situation where the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) prevented ESB from developing new generation capacity as it was trying to encourage other players to come into the market. However, they didn't come in quick enough nor did they provide the necessary capacity. So, they've now done a deal where ESBs allowed to expand existing facilities in exchange for selling older plants' sites off to compeditors. The idea is that the sites and network connections can be used by new entrants to speed up their roll out, while ESB can get on with building new capacity.

We came very close to having not enough generation capacity to keep up with demand due to that administrative decision!!

ESB has now been 'unbundled' into seperate units:

1) Eirgrid (National Grid Operator)
2) ESB Networks (Local distribution HV/MV/LV networks and metering)
3) ESB Generation (Generation)
4) ESB Customer Supply (retail sale of power to end users)
5) ESBi (Consulting Engineers)
6) ESB International - Overseas operations

(3), (4), (5) and (6) are likely to be privatised, however 1) and 2) are due to remain as public utilities.

There is still an argument though that it works very well as a publically owned company and turns healthy profits and keeps costs down so if it ain't broke why fix it?!


Edited by djk (02/16/08 08:25 AM)

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#174881 - 02/16/08 08:33 AM Re: Complete guide to wiring a housing development [Re: djk]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
It actually has fairly significant overseas operations too, including power plants in the UK, Spain
http://www.esbi.ie/activities/esbi_i.html

and fairly major network management contracts all over the world including the US and Canada

"ESBI was also selected as the independent system administrator to perform system and market operations in south-east USA"

http://www.esbi.ie/activities/networks.html

innovative enough for a bunch of civil servants hehe

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