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#174564 - 02/08/08 05:23 AM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
I just got the new 2008 NEC and I was reading under sec. 680.23.(A)(6). This section now allows pool lights in the bottom of the pool. OK fair enough, but when you read section 680.23(B)(6)Servicing, you have to be able to maintain the light without entering the water and have a cord long enough to reach the pools edge. Am I missing something here? Pool lights in the bottom could be really deep. Some pools go 10-15 feet deep and how would you be able to get that light without entering the water?
Thanks

P.S. I know I haven't been around here for awhile, but I always try to stop back from time to time to see what is happening.

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#174572 - 02/08/08 08:42 AM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Removing the light from the niche is not considered "servicing". They just mean you can put it on the deck to take it apart for "servicing" by a dry electrician. The actual removal of a pool light always involved getting in the water since they need to be 18" below the water surface which puts the screw more than two feet down. (unless your helper is a center for the Celtics in his spare time).
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#174590 - 02/08/08 01:12 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: harold endean]
macmikeman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
 Originally Posted By: harold endean
I just got the new 2008 NEC and I was reading under sec. 680.23.(A)(6). This section now allows pool lights in the bottom of the pool. OK fair enough, but when you read section 680.23(B)(6)Servicing, you have to be able to maintain the light without entering the water and have a cord long enough to reach the pools edge. Am I missing something here? Pool lights in the bottom could be really deep. Some pools go 10-15 feet deep and how would you be able to get that light without entering the water?
Thanks


I have a pool job going on right now, that had me wondering the same exact thing. That pool has no deck except at the shallow side, the rest is up against the house and a retaining wall. Stuck the light into the shallow end side, with much protest and feather puffing by the homeowner. I could care less about looks, just design and code.

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#174603 - 02/08/08 06:42 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: macmikeman]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
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Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5299
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Actually, you are almost required, by the swimming pool code, to have a light in the deepest part of the pool.

I say "almost," because the rule about pool lighting applies only to common pools (say, at apartment complexes) and only if night swimming is allowed.

The reason? The need to be able to see if someone is under water longer than they should be. Overhead lighting is not enough ... the lights need to be IN the pool. and the entire bottom needs to be lit.

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#174610 - 02/08/08 10:01 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: renosteinke]
gfretwell Offline

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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
In Florida you need a minimum 36" deck all the way around the pool
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#174625 - 02/09/08 07:00 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: gfretwell]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

You know me long enough I was a follower of "THE NAIL". LOL Does servicing really mean you have to into the pool, bring it out of the deep end with enough wire to reach the pool decking, then be able to service it while it is on the deck?
Could that really be what the code making panel was thinking? Or was this just another example of manufactures pushing their products into the code in order to be able to sell more. I mean some of these deep ends are what, like 10-15 feet deep? Will the wet niche be able to hold that much wire in it?

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#174641 - 02/10/08 07:14 AM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I suspect this are really in there to make legal the lights that already exist in some spas and pools with a "sun shelf" (a 6 to 10 inch deep area). The light John is talking about to illuminate the deep end will usually be in the side wall.
I still say you are not getting a pool light out of the niche without getting wet. All the code is saying is you need enough cord to be sitting on the deck when you take the thing apart.
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#174790 - 02/13/08 06:26 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: gfretwell]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

I have seen these new pool lights in the very deep end of the pool. Now if there is a short or a ground leak to the housing of this light, would it make sense to get into a pool in order to remove this light fixture? I know that we would all make sure that the light is OFF before we try to fix a pool light, but will that always be true? This part makes no sense to me, yet the code wants to make every receptacle in bedrooms tamper proof! Where is the logic in this code? It seems to me that manufactures are getting too many of their products in the new code sections of the NEC. Just look who sits on these code making panels. I believe that manufactures should only be required to sit in on these panels when it comes to the manufacturing of equipment, but not about installing of equipment.

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#174794 - 02/13/08 08:47 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think the required GFCI on the light will make sure it is off if it leaks.
The location of an underwater light really doesn't make much difference in it's danger if it is leaking current into the water.
I doubt you can really get any of them out without getting in the pool. The minimum distance to the top of the light is 18" below the water's surface and that puts the screw more like 24-28" down.
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#175392 - 02/28/08 05:58 PM Re: Pools in 2008 NEC [Re: gfretwell]
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

We can only hope that the GFCI will trip and keep the people safe. At a home installation, I would think that people would be more careful, but at a public pool, they might not be as careful.

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