ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:44 AM
Old decora style outlets
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:41 AM
NFPA stuff
by gfretwell. 03/28/17 08:08 PM
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,865 Are you busy
166,747 Re: Forum
160,870 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 82 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#174187 - 01/28/08 07:02 PM Welder receptacle rating  
ole_electric  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3
Metrowest Boston
Greetings everyone,

1st post for me here. I am installing a arc welder which calls for in it's litature using art. NEC 630-11 a OCPD @ 150 amps and conductor @ #4 (95 amps @ 90c table 310.16). The welder is single phase with a # 6 cord and a 50 amp plug. I ran the #4, but put in only a 50 amp OCPD backing up the 50 amp cord non fused disc. Duty cycle is 60%

My questions;
Why do they use 90 c column, most OCPD's and devices are 75c?
Should I have replaced the factory cord with 100 amp and direct wire with a disconnect or sell the cust a 100 amp cord, plug and recept.? OR just slap in a 150 amp backing the 50 amp recept! What if a different piece of equip is plugged in that location.

Many thanks guys!


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#174194 - 01/28/08 11:45 PM Re: Welder receptacle rating [Re: ole_electric]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,313
Alaska
The little extra amperage you can use for derating purposes like for wire count in conduits and ambient temperture corrections.

Welders wired under provisions of Article 630 Cord can use derate wire sized based on its duty cycle. The thought is with a 60% duty cycle meaning it is not to ran no more the 36 minutes per hour(60% of an hour). Even if the welder is cranking out 100 amps which will be rare with you welder if properly sized for the work, the cord will not get hot enough to cause damage. Besides the cord is part of the equipment which is not covered by the NEC. The outlet though is a different story. In theory, some other piece of equipment could be pluged in the the receptacle. The circuit must be able to carry the load.

The welder should be wired per the maufacuter's instuction. Failure to do so can void warranty and listing. If you void the listing, you can not use it. NEC requires all electrical components be listed or approved by a third party tester facility such as UL. That is why you see the little stamp like on a 4" square blank cover. Although it is just a square piece of metal, it still must be listed.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#174197 - 01/28/08 11:55 PM Re: Welder receptacle rating [Re: sparkyinak]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Ole_electric, Welcome, you'll enjoy it here.


#174210 - 01/29/08 08:20 AM Re: Welder receptacle rating [Re: leland]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,198
Chesapeake, VA
Flexible cables for cords use table 400.5(B). #6-2 90°C Type W is rated for 99 Amps.

Personally, if it's cord-and-plug, I'd size OCPD for the cable & plug, too, regardless of what 630 says, because *anything* could be plugged into that receptacle. The breaker is designed to mimic cable heating, so (in theory) it shouldn't trip prematurely if the welder's duty cycle is OK for a 50A plug, even if current exceeds 50A.


#174211 - 01/29/08 11:22 AM Re: Welder receptacle rating [Re: SteveFehr]  
ole_electric  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3
Metrowest Boston
thanks for your thoughts guys. I knew I came to the right place.

Right now I have a 50 amp OCPD, and watching how she does with the work. I'm not comfortable going up in size with the OCPD unless I change out the receptacle and plug to maybe just a disc. I know we size motor discs, plugs and recept's and to FLA and HP. That's EZ. Perhaps I'll call the mfg. I know we upsize OCPD for inrush on a still rotor with a motor. I'm wondering how the welder does on initial amps with that 50.


#174214 - 01/29/08 12:32 PM Re: Welder receptacle rating [Re: ole_electric]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,313
Alaska
Exstremely long day yesterday. Looked at one one message, yours. Welcome to the board.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa


Member Spotlight
mersadrad
mersadrad
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 28
Joined: March 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7752 MB (Peak: 0.9217 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-30 14:40:30 UTC