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#173250 - 01/06/08 07:56 AM AFCI ,loop hole?
leland Offline
Member
Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
I put this on another site as well,Thought I'ld try it here too.
Just a twist:

210.12.(B)- Arc fault-For dwelling units, straight forward.

210.18-Guest suites and guest rooms.
If they have permenant cooking (kitchen) they fall under "dwelling unit".210.12.(B). Understood.

Now, forward to 210.60-guest suites,dorms etc.assuming no "kitchen"provisions.
It only states to be in accordance with 210.52.
But 210.52 or 210.60, makes no referance back to 210.12(B).


So, My question is: In a guest suite,dorm rm etc.(210.60) With no "kitchen",
Do these ckts require AFCI?

I see a loop hole. Or is it tunnel vision?
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#173256 - 01/06/08 11:25 AM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: leland]
Tom Offline
Member
Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1044
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Appears to me that there is no loop to have a hole in. 210.52 and 210.60 deals with the placement of receptacle outlets and 210.12 deals with the protection of all outlets and the branch circuit conductors. Two different animals IMO.
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#173267 - 01/06/08 02:51 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: Tom]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
You don't need to look that hard ....

Would you like to continue to use 'skinny' breakers? Would you like to never have to install an AFCI? Then simply use 10 amp breakers .... the requirement only applies to 15 and 20 amp circuits.
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#173289 - 01/06/08 08:23 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: renosteinke]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Even if the AHJ went along with the 10 thing you would still need more circuits to get the 3va/sqft. Wire, breakers and labor would eat any saving you had from the AFCI savings
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#173303 - 01/07/08 03:48 AM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: gfretwell]
SteveFehr Offline
Member
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1195
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
We just need to get manufacturers to make 19-amp breakers. Problem solved!
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#173327 - 01/07/08 03:42 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: SteveFehr]
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4259
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
What kind of receptacle do you propose to put on the 10 Amp or 19 Amp breaker?
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#173339 - 01/07/08 06:46 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: electure]
NORCAL Offline
Member
Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 865
Do they even make a 10A twin breaker? Do not think useing them is such a hot idea,myself (10A breakers)
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#173340 - 01/07/08 07:02 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: NORCAL]
leland Offline
Member
Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
I guess my point was...

That bedrooms are the reasoning behind this rediculouse AFCI crap to begin with.

But in rooms with no other purpose except to sleep, not required.
Does this not seem strange?
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#173409 - 01/09/08 08:03 AM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: leland]
Zapped Offline
Member
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 482
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
The whole thing seems strange, IMHO. We've been putting AFCI breakers on REC circuits to bedrooms for years.

Is arcing really a plague that required this type of regulation? I've been in this business for 12+ years, in all facets of comercial, residential, and industrial. I haven't seen a need for such a code change. Maybe I've been lucky and limited in my experience.
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#173430 - 01/09/08 01:52 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: Zapped]
KJay Offline
Member
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 763
Loc: MA, USA
No AFCI required for dorm rooms?
What happens when Biff captures the rival football teams mascot goat, hides him in the dorm and the goat partially chews through one of the half dozen six-foot 18/2 extension cords connected together that run under the braided rug to the other end of the dorm room where the lava lamp, stereo, TV, DVD player, Mac notebook and mini-frig are plugged in? grin
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