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#171225 - 11/22/07 11:18 AM Petition to force 230V nominal
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Oh dear, somebody doesn't seem to get it.....

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/230volt/

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#171227 - 11/22/07 12:11 PM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: pauluk]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Use 8% less power by reducing the voltage to 230?
Why not reduce it to 12v and save 95%?

Why in the name of sanity have they included Tristan da Cunha in their list of expatriate territories?
It's uninhabited!
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#171238 - 11/22/07 07:09 PM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: Alan Belson]
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 221
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
The logic of this has me intrigued and annoyed. It's one of these things invented by beaureaucrats who don't understand what they're on about, but gives them a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
For one thing, the theory may work at face value with a 230V supply and 240V appliances, but what happens further down the track when the old 240V appliances are out of service and there's only new 230V ones? Reduce the supply then to 220V?
Secondly, this theory only applies to certain loads, I don't see a switchmode power supply for example reducing its power consumption on reduced voltage.
Then we have the situation with some heating appliances, say an oven. To get to the same temperature that it did at 240V, the element will have to stay on for a longer period when the supply is 230V.
Thankfully, the politically correct powers haven't got this far in Australia and I'm happy to report the phase voltage still measures 240-250.
It's a sore point with me having once lived at the end of the line and only getting 180-220V. I had to plug the TV into a variac just for starters...

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#171245 - 11/23/07 12:22 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: aussie240]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Aussie, some of them'll be getting the warm fuzzy feeling of a boot in their butts after recent fiascos, like losing the entire UK child agency database [ 24M people including their bank details ] in the mail or pouring us$80,000,000,000 into a dead-duck bank! Recent events show the whole shower to be incapable of running a bun fight in a cake shop!
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

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#171250 - 11/23/07 08:13 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: Alan Belson]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
I see two problems just right off the top. Electric motors will have to work harder thus more wear and tear on them and two, folks futhers away from the power supply like farms in rural areas, will have nothing but problems. Voltage is the worse at the end of the circuits anf farms with motors better start stockin up on replacements. This porposal was flown awile back and fissiled here in the US. Good luck
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#171251 - 11/23/07 08:18 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: sparkyinak]
Theelectrikid Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Levittown, PA
 Originally Posted By: sparkyinak
folks futhers away from the power supply like farms in rural areas, will have nothing but problems. Voltage is the worse at the end of the circuits anf farms with motors better start stockin up on replacements.


Then these "blind in one eye, can't see out the other" people will see that voltage drop as even more savings...

Ian A.


Edited by Theelectrikid (11/23/07 08:18 AM)
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#171254 - 11/23/07 08:28 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: Theelectrikid]
sparkyinak Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1286
Loc: Alaska
 Quote:
Then these "blind in one eye, can't see out the other" people will see that voltage drop as even more savings...


Most likely.


Edited by sparkyinak (11/23/07 08:29 AM)
_________________________
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#171260 - 11/23/07 09:50 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: Alan Belson]
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:
Why in the name of sanity have they included Tristan da Cunha in their list of expatriate territories? It's uninhabited!


It was only uninhabited for a brief period after the volcano erupted in 1961. Many residents returned a couple of years later and there are over 200 people on the island today.

http://www.tristandc.com/

 Quote:
I don't see a switchmode power supply for example reducing its power consumption on reduced voltage.
Then we have the situation with some heating appliances, say an oven. To get to the same temperature that it did at 240V, the element will have to stay on for a longer period when the supply is 230V.


Which are clearly points that the originator of the petition doesn't understand. It seems to me that he's just worked out his 8% saving figure from the reduction in power when going from 240 to 230V across a constant resistance.

 Quote:
This porposal was flown awile back and fissiled here in the US.


Just for anyone across the Pond not aware of the history behind this, the only reason that our supplies are now listed officially as 230V is because of European "harmonization." That's how -- as the petitioner outlines -- we ended up with the weird asymmetrical tolerance of 230V +10/-6%, because it allowed us to say "Hey look, we're on 230V now" without actually changing anything from our existing 240V +/-6% specification.

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#171262 - 11/23/07 10:33 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: pauluk]
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 862
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
Typical from bureaucrats who understand nothing about electricity !!

If that happened most fridges will burn out because of stalling motors, also bigger machinery will be affected as large compressors require the correct voltage to avoid crawling of the motors at 1/7 of the speed and have an early burn out of the windings. ( V² / R ).
Heating appliances will take longer to do the same job and lightbulbs will be a little duller but will last longer.

Harmonisation is a joke anyway. What about all the different plugs and sockets ?

Nothing wrong with an appliance with a multitap transformer and a voltage caroussel to select the correct value and a SMPS has a wide range, usually from 170 - 270 Volts ac.

My $ 0.02 worth.
_________________________
The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

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#171266 - 11/23/07 11:55 AM Re: Petition to force 230V nominal [Re: RODALCO]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
-It's one of these things invented by beaureaucrats who don't understand what they're on about, but gives them a warm fuzzy feeling inside.-

I feel better,I thought this unique to the USA.I guess they're all the same.

-he's just worked out his 8% saving figure-
Spend a dollar save a nickle, not uncommon.

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