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#171169 - 11/21/07 06:27 AM Code Question - Service Disconnects.
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
I have an overhead service install. We have a double lug, 320 meter can.

I came out of the meter to a disconnect, then ran 4 conductor to a detached garage panel. - no problems here.

Heres the problem - I came out of the meter again with only 3 conductors. I ran this wire outside the building 20 feet, then came into the building and immediately into the back of the panel.

The inspector says I need a disconnect at the meter for that panel? I have always heard I could theroretically run the SE cable around the building twice without a disconnect, as long I immediately enter the panel.

He refrenced 230.2, saying it is confussing if they need to interrupt the service. We offered to have a plaque made identifying, denoting the feeders supplying each building.

Opinions please.
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#171174 - 11/21/07 07:33 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
2 meters I assume?

I don't see a problem under 230.2.
SERV entrance for the garage has a disconnect and so doesn't the house.
only ? may be in 230.72. But then again it is 1 service.

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#171178 - 11/21/07 08:19 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: leland]
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
230.72 Grouping of disconnects.
AHJ may permit it IF it is clearly labeled.
Service Disconnect 1 of 2 Garage ONLY, Disconnect 2 of 2 House ONLY located inside at X place .
It is worth a try.
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#171186 - 11/21/07 01:48 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Alan Nadon]
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
To clarify its only 1 meter. The meter can is a 320, with double lugs.
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#171191 - 11/21/07 04:13 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
I see no problem.
I may be missing something. Ask the AHJ to expand on this.
230.2 does'nt cover service disconnects anyway.

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#171193 - 11/21/07 04:29 PM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: leland]
Jim M Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 453
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
Where I am familiar with the panel would need to set next to the disconnect or 2 disconnects would need to be set to comply with Services shall be grouped.

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#171246 - 11/23/07 05:23 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Jim M]
john p Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Bemidji,MN.USA
I believe if you place a disconnect on the house outside you would need both grouped together to eliminate confussion.
Around here I would simply come out of the meter with two 3 wire services. one for the house and one for the garage.

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#171252 - 11/23/07 08:22 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: john p]
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
So what I'm seeing here is we think the inspector is correct? Under 230.72.

Hrm... I'm not seeing it as a grouping of disconnects. I really don't see anything in 230.72 that would make this install not in compliance with code.

Besides the disconnect for the garage panel. This is the exact same way a service is ran in 95% of homes. Your telling me, because I add a disconnect.... now I have to add another disconnect because... ? Theres an ID problem? (I can understand clearly ID'ing the garage disconnect, that's code.. ) I could take my 11 yr old son there and he could see that the meter is supplying the building its mounted on. When you want to disconnect the house, I would say disconnect it the exact same way you disconnect the 95% of all other homes the meter or inside panel.

Seems strange to me, If anyone could post the exact article number this violates I would really appreciate it.

I'm wrong all the time. I just like to know how I'm wrong. I use these 320 double lug cans fairly often, I have never ran across this problem and I need to know. The extra cost on this is atleast $200 + addition labor for seperating nuetrals & grounds. I can't waste time and money for something that isn't needed, I may do this same install 300 more times in my life.


Edited by Trick440 (11/23/07 08:24 AM)
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#171259 - 11/23/07 09:04 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: Trick440]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9012
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I would question why you needed the disconnect for the garage at the house and the 4 wire feeder to the garage in the first place. Why not just have the disconnect at the garage fed with 3 wire USE and SE running top the disconnect in the house?
That looks like the "Maypole" setup we see a lot around here. If the meter was on a post there wouldn't be a question IMHO.I don't see hanging on the house changing that much if the SEC to the garage left immediately.
I do agree that in an emergency situation a fireman might assume that was the house disconnect. They don't usually stop and read signs if they think they know what they are doing. That is all the time
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#171263 - 11/23/07 11:26 AM Re: Code Question - Service Disconnects. [Re: gfretwell]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
"I do agree that in an emergency situation a fireman might assume .."

If that was the reason, Would'nt they require a meter disconnect to shut off all loads, As you see In some rural locations.

I see no violation.Again ask for the explanation,and if it is a local code.In Ma. we have ammendments, But they are state wide not Town or County.
On the next one, run the 3 wire to each panel and call it a day.

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