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#170036 - 10/24/07 07:04 PM Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment
Takideezy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/03/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Williamsport,PA,USA
Two story building, first floor contains a Subway resturant and used furniture shop. Second floor is a three bedroom appartment. I have been requested to install smoke detectors in all three spaces with the requirement that all sound if any one unit "smells" smoke.

I have used three wire smokes many times, no sweat in a single residence where one circuit powers the entire loop.

Can I tie three different circuits to a single alarm loop using "conventional" three wire smokes? I can't see how and would appreciate some help.

Thanks, Takideezy

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Building Codes & Related References
#170040 - 10/24/07 08:17 PM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: Takideezy]
SP4RX Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...eh
According to this link http://en.allexperts.com/q/Security-Fire-Protection-2247/Smoke-alarms.htm
they need to be on the same circuit. However, I don't know what qualifications this person possesses.
You could also try firing off an e-mail to this Firex technical support link http://www.icca.invensys.com/support/techsupport.htm

Good luck.

Shawn.

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#170100 - 10/26/07 08:50 AM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: SP4RX]
livetoride Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 109
Loc: san diego ca usa
We had a similar situation with a bar and grill with Apt. upstairs. I had to run a dedicated circuit just for the smokes up and down stairs. Rod

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#170103 - 10/26/07 11:03 AM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: livetoride]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I was caught in a catch 22 in my house. I wanted the detached garage to be on the same smoke loop as the house but this would be a 225.30 violation. I got over it. I now have a circuit in the house off the garage panel that runs the smokes in both places. Since I was violating the code anyway I went ahead and added a receptacle next to the panel in the house so I would have a work light with the house main tripped. It is marked that way and has a red cover.
I am holding my nose and calling it an (E).
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#170127 - 10/27/07 08:15 AM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: gfretwell]
Takideezy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/03/06
Posts: 8
Loc: Williamsport,PA,USA
Thanks for the input - I'm thinking that it will be one circuit from the primary service panel powering a single loop for all occupancies. Add a breaker lock and clear panel marking...and what could go wrong? Now if only the AHJ approves I'll be OK.

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#170131 - 10/27/07 09:13 AM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: Takideezy]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Just one thought, You may want this on a ckt that runs the Emergency lights/exit signs. This way you will know if the ckt is shut off. They all should have battery backup aswell.

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#176417 - 03/31/08 08:01 PM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: leland]
ultramegabob Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Indiana
do these units have seperate electrical services? if so, running a circuit from one unit to the other through fire walls would not pass in my area, I would look into a low voltage system possibly? Im not exactly sure that would pass either, just a possibility to check into. but actually, in my area, smokes arnt required for commercial, and you cannot live in a building with a business....


Edited by ultramegabob (03/31/08 08:04 PM)

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#176427 - 04/01/08 08:14 AM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: ultramegabob]
Zapped Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 481
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
This brings up some interesting questions.

What if you run them off of a circuit tied to only one of the services, and that service moves out for a period and has their account terminated? All of the smokes are now useless...

How about a wireless-link smoke system, where each smoke in the series communicates through radio preset signals (like a garage door opener). Is it time for something like this to be put on the market? This would also be great for retro-fitting an old building that was wired without the communication wire between the smokes.

Thoughts?

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#176440 - 04/01/08 05:15 PM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: Zapped]
WireNuts29 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Mass, U.S.A.
How about a 4 zone conventional Fa. system. Install One inition zone per flr. And install Signaling devices where needed. This is the only way this would fly around here. 120v smokes generally are not installed in a public/ commercial space, which would require the Fa system. And typically in a residence like you describe there would be a local 120v smokes and a heat or smoke tied to the initialion loop of the Fa. The main reason for not putting 120v. smokes throughout, would be if youburn popcorn for instance the smoke throughout will sound, possibly causing havoc. Where if you install a 135 ror heat in the common area, and a 200 fixed in the kitchen area there is less chance of false alarming.Additionally the 120v smoke is in the residence as a backup. Not sure how it works in other areas this is just pretty common around this area.

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#181592 - 10/17/08 12:31 PM Re: Hardwired Smoke Detectors/Business and Appartment [Re: gfretwell]
eprice Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 64
Loc: North Logan, Utah, USA
 Originally Posted By: gfretwell
I was caught in a catch 22 in my house. I wanted the detached garage to be on the same smoke loop as the house but this would be a 225.30 violation...


I'm not sure that would be a 225.30 violation. I think 225.30(A) could apply here. Isn't a smoke detector an emergency system? and couldn't you say that the system has enhanced reliability if a smoke detector in the garage can make the detectors in the house sound?

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