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#169656 - 10/10/07 10:18 PM Church Service
Webmaster Offline


Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3142
Loc: NY, USA
This is a church electrical service somewhere in the United States. Names will be omitted to protect the guilty. Working space? We don't need no stinkin' working space. Can you find the six service disconnects? I only see four.

Here's the fifth disconnect (below), to the left of the CT cabinet.
But where is the sixth?

Found it! It's in the corner just a few inches off the floor.

But wait, what's this? Look in the upper right corner of the picture below. There is a seventh disconnect for an emergency circuit. Does this violate 230.71?

The second exit from the room is blocked (see photo below). The Greenfield coming out of the disconnect runs close to the floor where it could be subjected to physical damage from things like racks full of folding chairs.

The electrician who installed this disconnect tried to get away with running the load-side conductors together with the line-side conductors through the same conduit and back through the trough. Naturally, it failed inspection, hence the Greenfield as a quick fix. You can see the other end of the Greenfield in the third picture.

Getting into other areas, here is bottom of a rack of audio equipment, complete with "daisy chained" power strips. Note the neat and workmanlike installation.

There is plenty more material where this came from, but that's all for now, folks.

- Larry B.

2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#169660 - 10/11/07 04:27 AM Re: Church Service [Re: Webmaster]
wire_twister Offline

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 265
Loc: Georgia USA
Other than the working space issue, this service looks good. I have seen and replaced alot worse, especially in churches. Not saying it is right, or by the book but saying its better than alot of others. As for your question about 230.71, are you saying one of those seven is not a fusible main disconect? What about over current protection?

Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid

#169662 - 10/11/07 04:37 AM Re: Church Service [Re: wire_twister]
HotLine1 Offline


Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6792
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
It's doubtful that the 'storage' was in-place during any inspections. I have a saying that 'what happens after I leave is between you and a higher authority' (used to be the word "God"; but political correctness changed that)

The 7th switch can be installed for 'emergency circuit'


#169685 - 10/11/07 07:18 PM Re: Church Service [Re: HotLine1]
Ewire88 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 18
Loc: Wheelersburg, Ohio USA
This maybe a stupid question, but does working clearances also relate to fire safety? Especially flammable material?

#169693 - 10/12/07 07:48 AM Re: Church Service [Re: Ewire88]
ghost307 Offline

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 883
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Yes, they do.

240.24 Location in or on Premises.
(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material...

Some people refer to this as the "not in closets" rule, but that's not the intent. Closets are given as an example of where easily ignitible matererial is found, not as the sole prohibition.

#180055 - 08/11/08 08:14 AM Re: Church Service [Re: Webmaster]
Ragin Cajun Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 3
Loc: S.C.
Compared to some I've seen, this is a good electrical installation. As for the "room" contents, typical.


#180056 - 08/11/08 08:57 AM Re: Church Service [Re: Ragin Cajun]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
This is one of the facts of life; no matter how well the original job is performed, there is no way to control the future.

For example, everyone seems to consider the electric room to be a perfect place for storage, a workshop, or a maintenance office. Panels, when place in hallways, ALWAYS cause major objections when you close off the hallway so that you can work safely.

Then there are environmental issues. Again, there is often no way to predict the factors that will be supplied later, by the customers. This is especially the case where physical damage becomes an issue.

Probably, though, the biggest culprit is the architect. For whatever reasons - inaccurate customer input, 'design elegance,' economy, or even simple ignorance - buildings never seem to have realistic provisions for either storage or support operations.

As a result, folks do what they have to do.


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