The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
1 registered (sparkyinak), 237 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#168161 - 08/28/07 09:12 AM Denmark to go French ?
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
I've been reading a few articles around the internet that are suggesting that Denmark will be changing over to CEE 7/5 socket outlets i.e. French-style 16A sockets with an earthing pin from 2008/2009.

At present the Danish socket is a bit problematic from a safety point of view. It's got exactly the same pin configuration as a common earthed 16A European CEE 7/7 plug, but has no means of making contact with the ground terminals.

i.e. you can plug a French, German, Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian earthed (grounded) plug into a Danish socket, get power but no earth connection.

The Danish plug has a 3rd pin to achieve the earth connection.

It seems that CEE 7/5 will be adopted as it gives the Danes a polarised setup that accepts CEE 7/7 plugs (the harmonised Schuko-style plug found on almost all European appliances thesedays)

It's not a huge change, but it does mean they gain full compatibility with their near neighbours in Scandinavia and Germany without loosing polarised connectors!

Although, you can be sure any CEE 7/5 socket in Denmark will be designed to Danish standards i.e. boxes, screws, requirements for shuttering etc.

Just to irritate the British members on the board.. Do you think perhaps a BS version of CEE 7/5 could be used in the UK ? All that would be required for compatibility with ring circuits would be a fused socket.


Edited by djk (08/28/07 09:14 AM)

Top
Test Equipment:

Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement

#168168 - 08/28/07 09:56 AM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: djk]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland

Danish Wall socket + light switch


Danish Plug


French CEE 7/5 socket outlet.


CEE 7/7 Plug - de facto European standard - fits CEE 7/4 (Schuko) and CEE 7/5 (French) grounded outlets without any complications.
When used with CEE 7/5 it's (in theory) polarised.

Top
#168172 - 08/28/07 12:37 PM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: djk]
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Note that while the Schuko plug is unsafe in Denmark, it is the standard and also carries a D-mark (Demko)...

Maybe, just maybe, this has something to do with LK's monopoly on sockets and light switches on the Danish market. :-) The boxes are different too, in another move to keep foreign suppliers out. If Denmark changes to French style, the customers may go all the way and change boxes, killing the market for LK in the process...

This question was actually up with one of the ministers a couple of years ago. In his response he agrees it is a strange situation and that in a modern installation with and RCD it is no disaster no having the grounding. Consequently, from 1. July 2008 the French outlets will be permitted and all buildings will be required to have RCD's.

Response from minister (in Danish)


Edited by C-H (08/28/07 12:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Expanded post

Top
#168173 - 08/28/07 12:53 PM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: C-H]
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Oh, I forgot: Some Danish two pin plugs can jam in Schuko socket, halfway in. This was considered a fire hazard. Therefore the French outlet with a pin. Polarity is a non-issue, I think.

Top
#168174 - 08/28/07 01:33 PM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: C-H]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
That's pretty amazing that the minister knows anything about a technical issue. Over here you'd be referred to the ETCI :P
The minister would be wondering if an RCD was some new political party he/she hadn't heard of yet !

If you read some of the debates on electrical standards here from the 1950s/60s you realise just how clueless they were!
All of the real work happens at technical bodies ministers are generally quite clueless.

The reason we adopted BS1363 as an exclusive standard was for pretty much the same reason though.
We'd a situation where Schuko existed along side various BS546 sockets and there were quite a lot of shocks caused by appliances being connected to sockets that were not making earth contact i.e. schuko jammed into BS546 or BS1363.

So, BS1363 was transposed into Irish standards as IS 401 and enforced strictly. The other standards have effectively completely vanished.

It's no longer legal to sell an appliance for domestic use without an IS401 or BS1363 approved plug fitted and it's been that way for quite a long time.


Edited by djk (08/28/07 01:39 PM)

Top
#168181 - 08/28/07 02:10 PM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: djk]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
I use both types, due to dragging a lot of stuff here when we moved, [ my preconceptions were dragged along too! ]. I have to say I'm on the verge of dumping all my Brit plugs and sockets, mainly in the workshop, in favor of the French ones, as not much Brit stuff is left that works after 7 years.
The French stuff works ok, now we have opted for LeGrande Mosaic. I have a lot of suspended french receptacles mounted 2 metres off the deck in the shop for portable tools, which is great for working around jobs with the router &c.. My only gripe is the Frog extension reels. Of all the receptacles, these reels are an absolute pita getting a plug inserted when using tools away from the fixed outlets. The shutter mechanisms seem to rapidly wear out. Must be all that dried blanc-mange* Dave!

*blanc-mange, the white-eat of technology!
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

Top
#168212 - 08/29/07 07:32 AM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: Alan Belson]
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
 Quote:
That's pretty amazing that the minister knows anything about a technical issue. Over here you'd be referred to the ETCI :P
The minister would be wondering if an RCD was some new political party he/she hadn't heard of yet !


Your ministers don't do the "You write, I sign"-trick? \:\)

Top
#168215 - 08/29/07 10:33 AM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: C-H]
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Oh they're masters of it!!

Top
#168286 - 08/31/07 03:12 AM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: djk]
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Originally Posted By: djk
Just to irritate the British members on the board.. Do you think perhaps a BS version of CEE 7/5 could be used in the UK ? All that would be required for compatibility with ring circuits would be a fused socket.


There's been talk about this sort of thing on and off, but I think the IEE would put up huge resistance to moving away from BS1363.

If there were both fused and unfused versions available here (the latter for radials), then you can bet it wouldn't be long before people started using the unfused versions on ring circuits.

Top
#168291 - 08/31/07 03:54 AM Re: Denmark to go French ? [Re: pauluk]
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Paul, they are doing it now, coming back from France and Spain with hairdriers, kettles etc. and a nice little adaptor from the shop on the ferry....
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals