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#168060 - 08/26/07 08:03 AM Another Hack Range Install
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5300
Loc: Blue Collar Country
These pics are from Ian, TheElectricKid.

I suppose it's best to lead off with a pic of the back of the appliance. It appears someone wasn't sure what the strain relief clip was for:





Then it gets better (or worse!). Looks like there was a bit of remodeling done, and the recep just didn't quite line up with the hole the guy cut in that "expensive" drywall:





Finally, inside the wall, the 'flying receptacle:'




Edited by renosteinke (08/26/07 08:52 PM)

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#168061 - 08/26/07 08:12 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: renosteinke]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
A great argument for permits and inspections. \:\)
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#168102 - 08/27/07 01:51 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: iwire]
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2331
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Dunno... how on earth are you going to inspect cord connected appliances (like the range w/o strain relief) and minor construction stuff like putting up new drywall?
Call for a constrution permit for everything that exceeds hanging a picture using thumb tacks?

Regarding the range one possibility would be to outlaw any modifications by non-licensed electricians other than a) plugging and unplugging stuf and b) changing light bulbs. This is reality in many countries and also some states of the US (I think NYC for example is that strict) and doesn't keep anyone from doing hack jobs.

I think even in the most conscious country I know, Switzerland, this would only fail if somebody reported it.

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#168103 - 08/27/07 03:11 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Originally Posted By: Texas_Ranger
Call for a construction permit for everything that exceeds hanging a picture using thumb tacks?



I live in Massachusetts, if you read the law replacing a receptacle could require a permit and inspection.

Is that how it really works? No.

Instead of a long rant I will just say that IMO the majority of pictures posted on this forum of poor work are from areas that do not have licensing or inspections.

Not to say we don't have licensed hacks but the inspection process helps to slow them down.
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#168104 - 08/27/07 03:16 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Originally Posted By: Texas_Ranger
. This is reality in many countries and also some states of the US (I think NYC for example is that strict) and doesn't keep anyone from doing hack jobs.


To me this argument makes no sense.

To me that is like saying seat belts don't save everyone so don't even bother.

I can't comment on how other countries do it but I can tell you here that inspections reduce the number of bad installations.

The fact that inspectors are failing jobs IMO proves they are catching violations that would have been remained otherwise.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#168106 - 08/27/07 04:13 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: iwire]
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2331
Loc: Vienna, Austria
I'm not saying we don't need inspections. I'm just questioning the idea of insepcting EVERYTHING. Usually permits/inspections are only required for work exceeding a certain scope and I think this is quite reasonable.

Besides, Austria does not require permits or inspections (nor does Germany) and I don't think general workmanship is worse than in the US (areas with permits and inspections), BUT only licensed electrical contractors are allowed to do anything beyond plug connected stuff and light bulbs. This seems to work reasonably well. I just wanted to point out measures like this won't completely stop ALL hack work like this.

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#168109 - 08/27/07 07:24 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]
Theelectrikid Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Levittown, PA
John, thanks (and nice job) on posting the pics.

Okay, it's obvious what's wrong with the first picture. Rest assured it is now done properly, with the clip actually in the hole.

Second pic is the one that made me yell when we pulled the old range out. The green board was put up by the previous (handyman) homeowner when they remodeled the house back in 1973. It's sized for the original GE range. (Back when appliances lasted more than three years.)

What I wound up doing was shutting the breaker off, and just swapping the cord to the new range, as my mother wouldn't let me pull down the green board (or cut a bigger hole in it) to move the receptacle to the outside of the wall. Oh well, can't win 'em all I guess.

Ian A.
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#168125 - 08/27/07 01:16 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Theelectrikid]
Ann Brush Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 155
Loc: Ohia
If the job of rewiring recep's or connecting major cord/cap appliances required a permit - I would be a perpetual violator. It's a violation but I don't see how you can set up a legal inspection framework to prevent this kind of thing that's also practical.

Customer: Can you come and inspect my new range?
AHJ: Sorry we are booked through next week?
Customer: I guess I will go without dinner for a week.
AHJ: Well you do need to loose weight!

It's the automotive equivalent of requiring the dealer to adjust your seat position.

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#168126 - 08/27/07 01:19 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Originally Posted By: Texas_Ranger
I just wanted to point out measures like this won't completely stop ALL hack work like this.


Of course not. \:\)

But If that was inspected it would not exist as it is.

I agree that the connection to the dryer itself would be tough to inspect but the installation a 30 amp 240 volt outlet should be inspected.

If that had been inspected would it be floating in the wall?
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#168128 - 08/27/07 01:22 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Ann Brush]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Originally Posted By: Ann Brush
If the job of rewiring recep's


Ann, would you like me to post the law from my state?

Installing a 30 amp 240 volt outlet requires a license, a permit and an inspection.

Sorry if you feel the laws inconvenient. ;\)
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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