The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
1 registered (geoff in UK), 133 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#167386 - 08/11/07 09:19 AM Arc Fault Circuits
CRM Offline
Member

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Alberta Canada
I'm wiring a new house, are the walk in closet and master bedroom bathroom required to be arc fault protected. The way I read the code is, only the receptacles in the bedroom area are required. Also are the switch and light required to be arc fault protected in the bedroom area. Thanks for any help.

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#167441 - 08/12/07 12:00 PM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: CRM]
mr_electrician Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/07
Posts: 106
Loc: London, Ontario
The way to attack this is to connect all bedroom receptacles (maximum of 12) on the same circuit. Arc faults are expensive, so it is a good way of saving money and still meeting the code.
_________________________
Never trust an electrician with no eyebrows!!

Top
#167481 - 08/13/07 06:38 AM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: CRM]
Rick Kelly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 60
Loc: Iqaluit, NU, Canada
To answer your questions... no, the light outlet and switch in a bedroom does not have to be fed from a AFCI protected circuit nor do the receptacles and outlets in a ensuite bathroom.

As to the walk in closet, does it have a door on it? If it does, then any receptacles installed in the closet do not need to be AFCI ptotected (unless some one sleeps in the closet). If the closet does not have a door on it then IMHO any receptacles installed in the closet do need to be AFCI protected.

Having said this... I agree with the above comment from mr_electrician.

Top
#168492 - 09/06/07 09:28 AM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: Rick Kelly]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Well I would include a walk in or any closet as part of the bedroom and require an outlet in the closet to be AFCI protected. So why is there an outlet in the closet?

Top
#168534 - 09/07/07 06:23 PM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: mikesh]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
Is "walk in closet" defined in the code? I've been treating them as ordinary rooms, if they have doors between them and the adjacent room. Plugs may be required by code and arc-fault protection isn't required. My thinking on the separate room issue is guided by the examples described in 26-712(f) and Appendix B 26-700(11).

However, I usually use the arc-fault circuit to feed that plug, because that circuit is already in the area. I just don't think the classification extends though a door, or hall plugs would have arc-fault protection.

Top
#168609 - 09/10/07 06:36 AM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: twh]
Rick Kelly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 60
Loc: Iqaluit, NU, Canada
The code, at least the 2006 CEC, offers no definition of what is and is not a closet that I am aware of.

I am not sure how 26-712(f) helps to shine any light on this issue.

The question is, at least in my mind, when is a walk in closet not a closet and is in fact a room off of the bedroom. Maybe the number of square feet of the floor of a closet should be the guideline.

Interesting...

Top
#168616 - 09/10/07 09:12 AM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: Rick Kelly]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
I asked several other inspectors and we agree that if the closet is off the bedroom we see it as part of the bedroom and not another room accessed through the bedroom so at least in this jurisdiction it is required to be AFCI protected. So ask your AHJ for their interpretation.

Top
#168632 - 09/10/07 09:15 PM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: mikesh]
twh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 898
Loc: Regina, Sask.
The rule is worded "branch circuits that supply receptacles installed in sleeping facilities of a dwelling unit shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter."

"Sleeping facilities" appear to not include living-rooms, where people sleep on the sofa; dog houses, where bad spouses sleep; nor even attics with an only access being through a sleeping facility. The term doesn't include bathrooms. A bathroom isn't a sleeping facility. Nor does it include a water closet, nor any other type of closet.

When the drafters of the Canadian Electrical Code want to include adjacent rooms in the definition of "sleeping facilities", then can easily do so. Just as they have excluded adjacent rooms by simply not including them.

The code is adopted as law, and as such, we are entitled to apply it as written, using the ordinary meaning of the words - without asking each inspector how he applies each rule in his area. That's just the way laws are.

Appendix C9 deals specifically with the right to interpret the code. It doesn't matter how many inspectors line up, the Canadian Electrical Code excludes them from the right to interpret the code. For those who don't agree with the law, as written, Appendix C6 is a perfect solution.

Unless someone can point to a rule that includes an adjacent room as part of a "sleeping facility", the ordinary meaning of the words will exclude a closet; and, the sump pump in the closet in the basement bedroom need not be on an arc-fault circuit.

Top
#168726 - 09/13/07 09:55 AM Re: Arc Fault Circuits [Re: twh]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
 Originally Posted By: twh
The rule is worded "branch circuits that supply receptacles installed in sleeping facilities of a dwelling unit shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter."

"Sleeping facilities" appear to not include living-rooms, where people sleep on the sofa; dog houses, where bad spouses sleep; nor even attics with an only access being through a sleeping facility. The term doesn't include bathrooms. A bathroom isn't a sleeping facility. Nor does it include a water closet, nor any other type of closet.

When the drafters of the Canadian Electrical Code want to include adjacent rooms in the definition of "sleeping facilities", then can easily do so. Just as they have excluded adjacent rooms by simply not including them.

The code is adopted as law, and as such, we are entitled to apply it as written, using the ordinary meaning of the words - without asking each inspector how he applies each rule in his area. That's just the way laws are.

Appendix C9 deals specifically with the right to interpret the code. It doesn't matter how many inspectors line up, the Canadian Electrical Code excludes them from the right to interpret the code. For those who don't agree with the law, as written, Appendix C6 is a perfect solution.

Unless someone can point to a rule that includes an adjacent room as part of a "sleeping facility", the ordinary meaning of the words will exclude a closet; and, the sump pump in the closet in the basement bedroom need not be on an arc-fault circuit.

TWH I am interpreting building code in whether a closet is part of the bedroom or another room. The building inspectors don't agree where a closet becomes a room. The building code says it is a dependant room and what does that mean? In any case where an interpretation of a code can require a lesser or greater requirement we usually side on the safer requirement.
So we interpret a closet to be a dependant room which is part of the bedroom and an outlet in a bedroom is required to be AFCI protected. No appeal of the CEC is possible but now you have me thinking about the building code and how it views a closet, walk in or hide in the corner when her husband comes home sized.

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals