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#166210 - 07/15/07 07:56 PM LEED Score???
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Currently, (My Fair City) San Francisco is having an Board of Supervisers level vote to adopt the 2007 State codes Building, electrical, energy etc.) - but superceeding those by also adopting, and making MANDATORY something called a " Leed's Score" for all permits. (Public and private, commercial, and residential) Which would mandate certain design criteria in excess of our state Title-24 requirements.

Does anyone know exactly what effect this will have on the what's, where's, or how's of our trade?

As it sounds as if this is happening nationally in various places - how is it affecting you?

Please remember this is one of those borderline issues here - So no mention should be made of the who's or why's - just the what's, where's, or how's. Because in 6 months or so I have a Code, Standard, or Rating of some sort to stand up to, and I have no idea what or where it is.... Or how to do it.

[whimper]Help.....[/whimper]
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#166211 - 07/15/07 09:17 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: e57]
NORCAL Offline
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Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 805

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#166212 - 07/15/07 10:32 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: NORCAL]
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
I did, (Searched most of the site) can't seem to find more than fluff there so far - nothing recongizable to me as an Energy or Building code yet. Lot of talk about becoming "Certified" - the question is - in what? They also mention some sort of 'Check-lists to Builders/contractors' - Has anyone seen one?

By the nature of the guise... - I am assuming it involves lots of CFL's, T-8's and mandatory controls, even automated window treatments.... But thats speculative - isn't it?
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#166251 - 07/16/07 02:46 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: e57]
SolarPowered Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 615
Loc: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Once upon a time, there was a great country founded on the idea personal liberty. I think it was called "The United States of America." I understand that the concept of personal liberty resulted in that country becoming a great country, with great prosperty for its citizens.

Regrettably, it seems that said country no longer exists. \:\(

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#166252 - 07/16/07 02:59 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: SolarPowered]
ITO Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 341
Loc: Texas
Feel good legislation.

We have it here too, the GC or owner just hires a consultant to help you through the loopholes so you can get your building built.

In principle it sounds like a good idea, but in practice it does not always do what it was intended to do and building cost more.
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#166256 - 07/16/07 06:39 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: e57]
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Gentlemen, Please no who's or why's.... I was really hesitant on even bringing this up - But on the other hand - WHERE ELSE WOULD I BE ABLE TO?!?

I posted this same thread on another forum (Same policies - even some of the same people) and found a bit of information about these "Check-lists" that tally the score that will eventually spit out your "Rating" - but still looking for black and white "Requirements" that are not so vague. Installation of specific lighting or controls, and where, under what circumstances....

Like:
'All task lighting must be LED, and controlled by motion sensing devices that only sense finger movement in the task area - and the device must only have a delay of 2.5 seconds to shut the fixture off.' (Sounds extreme until you hear the complaints of people soaped up in the shower with our current State standards for bathroom lighting controls)

Or Mandatory pin and socket based dimmable CFL lighting in say - bed rooms? Where it's hard to force feed people these type of things in other rooms as it is now.

On one of the check lists they have "Light pollution reduction" Does that mean Hooded floods, or someone out there with a lumen meter? It sounds like to get the credit for it - it's the lumen meter? (Page 15 of the link above)
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#166261 - 07/16/07 08:06 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: ITO]
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
 Originally Posted By: ITO
Feel good legislation.

We have it here too, the GC or owner just hires a consultant to help you through the loopholes so you can get your building built.

In principle it sounds like a good idea, but in practice it does not always do what it was intended to do and building cost more.


What does this "Consultant" do? And what items are mandated in prctice?
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#166262 - 07/16/07 08:07 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: e57]
PE&Master Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 138
Loc: TX, USA
Where does all the mercury in the CFL's go when they die or break? Save the electricity, poison the earth.

There may be a future with LED's once they cost $0.30/bulb and can dim.

How come you could power a 4,000 sq ft home with a 60 amp 240v service 40 years ago and today it takes that to power a single hot tub?
The same house needs a 320 amp service and we now have flourescents, dimmers, motion sensors and a lot of nice technology but...

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#166271 - 07/16/07 10:37 PM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: PE&Master]
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
I wholeheartedly agree with what you said there - all of it... Mercury, and the harmonic load too.... (Might lead to a why here - maybe a who too.)

But you can get colored LEDs even what they call "White", and you can get them at 30 cent or so - not the dimmable ones but that will happen soon. Unfortunately, the profit that they are taking and recouping the development of this type of technology is out of control IMO. And the light color is just alien. One of the reasons people don't like - or rightly, don't feel "comfortable" with fluorescent lighting is the color and flicker - Even "Flicker Free" still has flicker, like Lite Beer, or non-fat milk... I can't drink either, and still feel cheated out of the smooth warmth of a real light bulb in certain situations. Thats how I feel about it.... (whoa 2.5 who's)

But really - my internal self-censors are telling me not to debate "generation vs. consumption" as there whould be a 'why' involved.

Anyway - still looking for What's and How's....
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#166282 - 07/17/07 06:42 AM Re: LEED Score??? [Re: e57]
ITO Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 341
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: e57
What does this "Consultant" do? And what items are mandated in prctice?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_in_Energy_and_Environmental_Design

The consultants help the designers with the local scoring system; tell you where to buy materials, and specific solutions the city will accept. For the most part 90% of LEEDs stakes place on the drafting table and the rest is the contractors.

Locally we have two competing standards LEEDs and a “Green Building Program”, that seem to be morphing together. Neither are actually “required” but good luck on getting a permit unless you play the game they way they want, and some items like duel level lighting, and motion sensors are required. LEEDs has a Bronze, Silver and Gold scoring system and the local “Green Building Program” has a point system.

The consultant will also work with the GC for more LEEDs items if they are required by contract and then we get our marching orders from the GC. For example one local GC will put blue recycle containers on the job for steel, or they will ask us to used materials that have a certain percentage of recycled material in them, or they may have a specific way we handle our spoils.

In the electrical world our LEEDs issue are mostly lighting, ie light capturing (sun), motion sensors, duel level lighting, and high efficiency luminaries, and 100% of that is done during design.
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