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#165721 - 07/04/07 09:58 AM EU colour codes -  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Just out of interest - here's how Ireland's ETCI has interpreted the EU colour codes into Irish codes.

Also, curious as to how DC's done elsewhere..

Earth, protective, bonding - Green+Yellow
Neutral - Blue
Phase 1 - Brown
Phase 2 - Black
Phase 3 - Grey
PEN Conductor : Green + yellow with blue at the terminations or, blue with green+yellow at the terminations.

DC Positive - Red
DC Negative - Black
DC middle wire - Blue



Last edited by djk; 07/04/07 09:59 AM.

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#165740 - 07/04/07 03:35 PM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: djk]  
RODALCO  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 854
Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
What happened with the colour LIGHT BLUE for neutral ?

That was supposed to be the correct new colour for a neutral conductor.
I recall discussing it in another thread.


The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

#165757 - 07/05/07 02:33 AM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: RODALCO]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
OK, I'll bite,
Would someone like to tell me how people that design and make electrical panels with PLC's and other Low voltage devices are supposed to internally wire a panel.
I'm talking 12, 24 and 48V AC.
I think you guys know my thoughts already on the constant changes being made to wiring colours.
New Zealand used the British standard for wiring control panels up until 1992, in factories at least.
In '92, all that went out the window, now factories that I've been part of, have added on bits and pieces with "new colour codes".
Phase is purple and the Neutral Black w/White stripe.
I wish someone would make up their mind, this is confusing us all to hell!.
But on the same side of the coin, I've also made a point of labelling the panel with a decal stating the colour codes used throughout the installation.
As for the chosen EU colours, they couldn't be a worse combination IMHO, at least with R-Y-B you had some idea of the colours in poor light, it seems like some clown that has never done a days work as an Electrician dreamed that idea up.
Just my $0.02 worth.


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#165768 - 07/05/07 08:50 AM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: djk]  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
DC Positive - Red
DC Negative - Black
DC middle wire - Blue


This is the new system in Ireland? confused How come you still have red in there?

The old system for D.C. here (since 1966) is:

Positive "outer" = red
Negative "outer" = blue
Middle wire = black

The association of blue with D.C. negative has been around for a long time across fields well outside the IEE's scope, e.g. the distribution equipment for the traction supply on the London Underground (neither pole solidly grounded) is coded red=positive, blue=negative, and blue has long been used as the identifying color for -50V busbars in telephone exchanges.

Under the new system the IEE lists the following (Mike, you'd better get yourself a drink and sit down before you read this!):

Positive = brown
Negative = gray
Middle = blue

For a 2-wire circuit, the grounded conductor should be blue with brown or gray as appropriate for positive or negative "hot" line. If neither pole is grounded, then brown & gray should be used for positive & negative respectively.

frown


http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/IEE_Harmonized_colours.pdf


Quote
I recall discussing it in another thread.


Whatever happened to LIGHT blue?


Last edited by pauluk; 07/05/07 09:09 AM. Reason: Added info.

#165787 - 07/05/07 01:13 PM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: pauluk]  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Well seems we've at least got the IEE middle wire :P

DC projects are pretty narrow and specialised these days though. I can't really see that many instances where normal contractors would come across DC feeds, other than SELV stuff.

Railway traction's pretty specialised.

Last edited by djk; 07/05/07 01:14 PM.

#165822 - 07/06/07 04:59 AM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: djk]  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
The 13th edition (1955) IEE standard specified white for the negative of a 3-wire D.C. circuit (i.e. what was at that time the second phase on A.C.). Positive was red and middle wire black, the same as the 14th edition standard.

It also specified that the outer -- of either polarity -- of a 2-wire circuit derived from a 3-wire system should be red. That was the situation which existed in houses fed from D.C. mains in the 1950s. Half the houses in the street would have a grounded black negative with red at +240V (ish) to ground; the other half would have grounded black positive with red at -240V to ground.




#165841 - 07/06/07 11:32 AM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: pauluk]  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Unlike the UK, DC supplies for residential use were rare here. ESB was established and nationalised in 1927 and rapidly standardised on 220/380V 50Hz LV supply.
The only systems that would have been DC were independent town supplies, they were very quickly merged into ESB.

DC colours possibly never played much of a role in electrical contractors' day-to-day work here. Where as in the UK, they were around for much longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_Supply_Board#Standards Gives the details

Last edited by djk; 07/06/07 11:32 AM.

#165846 - 07/06/07 12:57 PM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: djk]  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Going somewhat off the original topic but I noticed this in the Wikipedia entry:

Quote
Industrial, heavy commercial and stage/studio installations use European standard IS EN 60309:1999 / IEC 60309 plugs and sockets. BS546 was once commonly used for stage and studio lighting, however it is no longer permitted for safety reasons and should not be installed


BS546 is still commonly used in theatre applications here. What possible safety reasons are there so long as the circuits feeding them are properly protected?

Using BS4343/IEC309 for all stage lighting connections seems horrendously cumbersome given their bulk.


#165851 - 07/06/07 02:13 PM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: pauluk]  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Primarily that they're not designed as industrial plugs and are only specified for residential or light commercial use.

1) They can sit half-in/half out if pulled on as they've no locks. Also, they can come loose if the cables are pulled.
2) They are prone to breakage if they're abused or crushed.
3) Does stage lighting have RCD protection?
4) They cant be used in outdoor rigs.

The CEEform plugs aren't that bulky to be honest and they're not that visible in stage rigging.
They are legally required here now though. If you put anything else in you're in breech of health and safety regulations.

Last edited by djk; 07/06/07 02:15 PM.

#165852 - 07/06/07 02:39 PM Re: EU colour codes - [Re: djk]  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
There's an example of a dimmer pack

[Linked Image]

Small stuff can use IEC connectors.

BS546 is simply not supported as an official standard here anymore, so you can't realistically use it on anything anymore.

I've never found the plugs particularly bulky. They don't have to be completely blue either.

Last edited by djk; 07/06/07 02:50 PM.

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