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#164931 - 06/14/07 08:22 AM Abandoned wiring
wirecat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 6
Loc: Versailles, KY US
Is there a code article addressing abandoned wiring or disconnected cables? Seams to me I remember one saying abandoned wiring is to be removed, but I can’t find it now. Can anyone help?

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#164939 - 06/14/07 10:17 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: wirecat]
macmikeman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
What type of wiring or cables are you asking about? There are codes about removing abandoned cables, but that depends on the type and usage.

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#164940 - 06/14/07 10:22 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: wirecat]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
There are several places in the code that talk about removing accessible abandoned wiring. Other than under floor raceways they mostly refer to low voltage, computer and audio cables.
You usually get away with leaving them if you tape them back and label them "spare" or words to that effect.
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Greg Fretwell

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#164944 - 06/14/07 02:48 PM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: gfretwell]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Basic wording is 'tag at both ends'. It's within most if not all of the LV sections, Phone/data/alarm, etc.

Greg's 'spare' could be debated....both ends should match; ie; apare #1, etc. IF you want to be nit picky.

Basically, cleaning up LV can generate some extra $$ for EC's doing renovation (comm)

When drop ceilings are removed, there's what I call "sins of the past". Unsupported, fished, etc. LV cabling, and the occasional power wiring that more than likely was 'added' after the ceiling inspection(s)

We (NJ) enforce removals (LV), and whatever 'remains' has to be properly supported and identified. "Power wiring' is usually all removed, or re-installed.

Now, before the bullets start flying....I'm talking Comm/Ind work, ceiling areas, not resi.

John
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John

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#164948 - 06/14/07 03:38 PM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: HotLine1]
wirecat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 6
Loc: Versailles, KY US
I am talking about power cables, not LV. We do both commercial and residential remodel jobs. The last commercial job we did there was pipe and mc and a ceiling full of both disconnected and live circuits. We were told to just leave it up there.

We are getting ready to do a residential remodel job and I told the owner I am going to remove all the old disconnected MN-B I can get my hands on. (He can have it and take it to the recycle center.) I just don’t like the idea of leaving all that old cable in the walls if I can easily rip it out.

Can you all reference the code articles on the subject?

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#164956 - 06/15/07 04:48 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: wirecat]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
OK, now for some commentary...
In the NEC, references to abandonded wiring is within the LV Articles. (Period) There is no direct references to voltages, nor to wiring methods utilized within Article 300 wiring methods. Hence, we as EC's and AHJ's have to employ some common sense, which is also not referenced within the NEC.

Intent of removal is to reduce fuels in the event of a fire. Now, think about accidental powering of 'abandoned' conductors...possibly causing arcing, etc.

Additionally, there's the issue of having to work around all the 'junk' while doing you job. Also, explaining the stuff to the AHJ.

Owners that I have worked for as an EC have taken the position of complete removals, unless it is being reconnected. ALL LV is stripped out end to end.

John
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John

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#164960 - 06/15/07 06:01 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: HotLine1]
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Most of the Owners that I've run into want it all left "because it's cheaper and still meets the Code".
I aks them if they have an issue if anything gets ripped out for free. Once they say that they don't care, the door's open for either creating a clear workspace or working around it...whichever way is easier for the Trades.
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Ghost307

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#164965 - 06/15/07 09:18 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: ghost307]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
We don't have any electrical code rules in Canada but the fire protection act does. If the local jurisdiction uses the national fire code then abandoned wiring must be removed. Our local jurisdiction does not enforce it or the National fire code is not enacted here.

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#164969 - 06/15/07 11:59 AM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: mikesh]
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
The whole purpose for the removal of LV cables is to reduce the fuel load in return air spaces. If your wiring is in conduit, it will not contribute to the fire or smoke.
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Earl

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#164987 - 06/15/07 07:39 PM Re: Abandoned wiring [Re: earlydean]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
From a practical sense, the reason you want to remove unused cables is the hair ball you end up with if you don't. My wife's community is fixin to pay me $300 to remove all the unused computer cables from their server rooms and relabel the stuff that stays.
If they had removed the stuff as they went along they wouldn't be in this pickle.
I have seen so many old cables under a computer room floor it was blocking the air flow.
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Greg Fretwell

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