ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
WEG CFW-11 Frequency Inverter
by jraef. 03/21/17 08:50 PM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/20/17 08:14 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,134 Are you busy
165,891 Re: Forum
160,444 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (mbhydro), 71 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#163508 - 05/09/07 08:38 AM Losing bid's  
Peter Salegna  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 19
norwich,conn, USA
I seem to keep losing bids I don't know if I'm over bidding or if the customer thinks its to much for someone who has a regular full time job......The jobs I do get it dosen't seem like I'm making any money for the time spent doing the job. I am in Conn and usually price @ $65/opening everything included. Any help would be great.


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#163509 - 05/09/07 08:57 AM Re: Losing bid's [Re: Peter Salegna]  
rcksmith127  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 33
Danvers, Ma, USA
Hi Pete, my recommendation would be to get an estimating program. For residential work, you can get a (I think it is called) "Craftsman" series for short money. It is user friendly and you can adjust all the pricing to meet your area. You can also update it via the internet.
$65/opening seems like throwing darts.


#163512 - 05/09/07 10:10 AM Re: Losing bid's [Re: rcksmith127]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
If these are 'real' bid jobs, the results ought to be posted, and you would know where you stand.

Since the property bubble burst, I've seen a lot of jobs just 'disappear' ... along with the funding. Other projects are scaled back, drawn out, etc.

Finally, it is a sad fact of business life that there are those who seem to make a hobby of collecting quotes, etc., without any intention of getting work performed.

All you can do is follow up, even ask the customer the reasons for the loss. This is no guarantee that you'll hear the truth, but it's a start.

You also might compare yourself to whoever did get the job. I've known "little Hitler" property managers who would choose contractors on as arbitrary a thing as whether the guy they met was wearing a jacket, or gym shoes.


#163620 - 05/12/07 02:08 PM Re: Losing bid's [Re: renosteinke]  
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
.."little hitlers"...lol

I see we work with the same type of property managers/HOA's reno.

Good asdvise from renosteinke, I must concurr. Nicely ask the client if there is anything you could do in the future to better satisfy their needs, i.e. get their business. This may or may not bear fruit, but it's worth a shot.

Also, if it's a commercial application, the winning bid is often available for review. Take a good look at that bid and see if you can figure out what they have that you do not.

Sometimes it's just the presentation of the bid, and how professional it looks.

Do you have a sharp and professional looking letterhead?

Do you spell check and check for grammarical errors?

Is your bid well written and to the point?

Sometimes this makes a difference, and sometimes the bottom line ($$) is all they look at.

Good luck in the future Peter!


#163635 - 05/12/07 11:48 PM Re: Losing bid's [Re: Zapped]  
ITO  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
Texas
What kind of jobs are you bidding?
What is your labor rate before markup?
What dollar value are we talking about here?
What estimating method are you using?


101° Rx = + /_\

#166505 - 07/22/07 05:43 PM Re: Losing bid's [Re: ITO]  
teester  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 34
SC
You've got to know your labor burden and overhead expenses to sucessfully compete with the big dogs. The more you know the more you can tweak your rates on jobs to get competitive.

For example, I recently was in your shoes. I got with the wife (an accountant and mine on the side) who figured my labor burden was at 28%. That is to say that each dollar I pay anyone for labor, you can add 28c per dollar to your cost to do business. This is for social security, wc, and unemployment and liability insurance + she added in health insurance for mine.

Then you got your overhead. Trucks, fuel, maintenance, utilities, rent/mortgage etc which don't vary much month to month.

Lets say you have $5000 per month overhead. You have 4 guys working in three trucks, your entire crew. If they work 40 hrs week, you take 5000 and divide that by the total expected hours. That is, 40 x 4men x 4.33 weeks (average # of weeks per month)and you get 692 hours worked/month. $5000/692= 7.22/hour overhead per man per hour. You got a man making $15/hr, x 1.28 (My burden) + 7.22= your cost/hour per $15/hr man. That is 26.42/hr you must make to break even.

Now figure adding a fifth man to your crew. No additional expense unless you give him a phone/radio. If he works 40hrs/week you can now divide your $5000 by 866 hours/month. That dramatically reduces your hourly overhead from $7.22 to 5.77/hr. A sixth man and it is now 4.81/hr. Now you can charge less per hour if you need to and still make money.

A 3 or 4 man operation cannot compete with larger outfits who employ say 15 guys. Sure they have a larger gas bill etc. but the rent, utilities etc will remain the same.

That is what I've been trying to do. Working my A## off and making a decent living but if you figure all the hours I've worked my top guys probably made more than I did per hour. You've got to grow a bit to get your hourly costs down.

After doing some figuring I adjusted my rate down only a couple dollars in my estimating software. Now I've become very competitive and getting jobs. I had to plan to hire a couple of guys to get the same profit.

As I said, you must KNOW YOUR labor burden and overhead in order to get competitive and still make money. If you don't know and you lower your rates you may seal the deal to closing your contracting business.

Good Luck!

Last edited by teester; 07/22/07 05:44 PM.


Member Spotlight
HCE727
HCE727
Delaware County, PA, USA
Posts: 186
Joined: November 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 15 (0.002s) Memory: 0.7785 MB (Peak: 0.9254 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-23 00:24:45 UTC