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#163473 - 05/08/07 04:32 PM do breakers count electrons?
trekkie76 Offline
Member
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 220
Loc: baileyville, maine, usa
I am not sure if this a silly question, but I read a grounding book today that was talking about breakers. The book stated that the breaker remembers what amp rating it has, and that it counts the electrons, and if more pass the breaker then is supposed to, it trips.
I was under the impression that a breaker worked on ambient temperature componsated bi-metal strip, and it was the heat generated by the amps flowing beyond the rating that cuased it to trip. I would dismiss it as ludicrous, but it was in a well respected electrical series. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Gary
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#163478 - 05/08/07 05:40 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: trekkie76]
HotLine1 Offline


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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6778
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Gary:
A silly question...no.
I heard of thermal magnetic CB's, and I know there are some 'smart' cb's (SQ-D for one), but I know of none that have electron counting capability.

Perhaps...this thread will evolve.
John
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#163479 - 05/08/07 05:49 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: trekkie76]
RobbieD Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 231
Loc: Canada
I installed a breaker today that is good for 9.363e19 electrons but the code only allows me to load that breaker to 7.4904e19 electrons.
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#163482 - 05/08/07 06:14 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: RobbieD]
macmikeman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 717
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
As of this point today, May 8th 2007, it is still electron theory. Most scientists are fairly certain of the structure of atoms, and of course the theory holds up quite well for us electricians, and electricity seems to work within the bounds of the theory, but it is still theory, until we can slow one down to have a good look at it, if we could see stuff that small.
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#163483 - 05/08/07 06:31 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: macmikeman]
NJwirenut Offline
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Registered: 09/15/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Bergen County, NJ
Robbie:

I hope those figures are electrons PER SECOND?

smile
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#163484 - 05/08/07 07:23 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: NJwirenut]
RobbieD Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 231
Loc: Canada
Yeah, lol. Per second sorry I forgot to put that, lol.

Now about that book, is it a green one that has IEEE on it? I remember looking at that book once and it was all formulas, electrons, etc. Very confusing.

Breakers are rated in amps, which are a certain number of electrons per second. Breakers don't count the amps (or electrons that make the amps) like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4...etc. They count them in the manner of a reaction. They react to them, either by effecting the bi-metalic strip or by electro magnets, which trip the breaker at the desired setting, just like you said.

So just think of it as a reaction, not counting.

I'm not a scientist or anything but thats how I look at it. Hope it helps!

Try asking Scott to explain it down in the electrical theory section. He knows his stuff and he would give you the best desciption for sure.
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#163485 - 05/08/07 07:52 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: RobbieD]
JoeTestingEngr Offline
Member
Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Chicago, Il.
Since the heating effect can cause a trip, the breakers are really counting calories. This is especially true for the slim breakers.
Joe
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#163496 - 05/08/07 10:49 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: JoeTestingEngr]
mxslick Offline
Member
Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 803
Loc: Atomic City, ID USA
Originally Posted By JoeTestingEngr
Since the heating effect can cause a trip, the breakers are really counting calories. This is especially true for the slim breakers.
Joe


ROFL!!!
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#163499 - 05/08/07 11:18 PM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: mxslick]
Alan Belson Offline
Member
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1803
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Quote:
Now about that book, is it a green one that has IEEE on it? I remember looking at that book once and it was all formulas...

LOL!



Edited by Alan Belson (05/08/07 11:19 PM)
Edit Reason: mistake
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#163516 - 05/09/07 09:33 AM Re: do breakers count electrons? [Re: Alan Belson]
mikesh Offline
Member
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 613
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Boy this is rich. In 28 years i have never considered this but Yes breakers do react to electron flow at a specific rate and react to the calories produced by the friction of the electrons through the bi metal strip. This is why my eyes glazed over in physics class. I got A+ avg in Electrical theory in High school but passed physics at the gift of the teacher. I almost failed physics electrical theory. Good question for a physicist.
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