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#16341 - 11/10/02 05:02 PM Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
A sub-panel directly below this Service panel is being fed with #2 SER, but there's something amiss...

I got a measurement of 22.5A on the neutral and .7A on the EGC for the sub-feed.

[Linked Image]

This shows the SEU cable entering the box, sans connector. Some RX with no connector as well as open KO's.

[Linked Image]

Here's the #2 SER Sub-feeder.

[Linked Image]

A wide shot for perspective.

[Linked Image]

A good close look at the Neutral and EGC Terminal connections!

[Linked Image]

(It was a service call for a sizzling Circuit Breaker)


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#16342 - 11/10/02 06:08 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
CTwireman  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Connecticut, USA
[Linked Image]

66, Is there any good wiring in WV? Besides yours, of course!

The pictures you post never cease to amaze me! [Linked Image]


Peter

#16343 - 11/10/02 07:25 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
GlennH  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 40
pa.
Is it just me or have the mice been depos-iting at this convenience store?


#16344 - 11/10/02 08:35 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
the nm connectors look inside out in pix #1,


#16345 - 11/10/02 08:42 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
ThinkGood  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
In photo #2, I see copper exposed (red wires in the connector, bottom left...)


#16346 - 11/10/02 08:55 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Is that an approved ground screw? [Linked Image]

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 11-10-2002).]


#16347 - 11/10/02 11:34 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
CTwireman, even mine has a little left to be desired, I suppose... I guess Tom's and Max Summerville's are probably up to par! [Linked Image]

GlennH, yep, looks like "mice sign" to me! [Linked Image]
Actually, it's one of the cleaner places around here! Getting in to the warm panel doesn't appear to be a problem for them!

Steve, yes they are, but I'm not sure if it's a violation or not... Anyone care to comment?

ThinkGood, Yup, that very one almost got in the way when I went to put the cover back on too! [Linked Image]

Roger, LOL! What may not be clear in the pic is that the 23A or so from the sub-panel neutral and EGC is going through the metal structure of the service panel enclosure in it's hunt for the SEU neutral mounted on the ground bus on the upper left part of the panel!

The owner wasn't there at the time, and I have a sneaky feeling that the sub-panel feeds the gas pumps, floating neutral and all!!!!

What would 240V do to a 120V gas pump assuming it's probably not installed completely explosion-proof?

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-10-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#16348 - 11/11/02 09:12 AM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
walrus  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
Bangor Me. USA
"What would 240V do to a 120V gas pump assuming it's probably not installed completely explosion-proof?"

From my experience lots of good [Linked Image] things can happen with floating neutral and a gas pump.


I've seen motors and light ballasts energize the frame of pumps so I could get a shock off the pump frame.

The chances of an installation looking like that being "completely" Exp. proof are slim and none [Linked Image]


#16349 - 11/11/02 01:18 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
Virgil,

Care to lay odds on the feed to the dispenser being NM or UF?

I'd also bet that the SER cable is connected to a 100 amp breaker instead of a 90 amp.

By the way, where are the gas pump breakers? They are supposed to have a switched neutral circuit breaker, I don't see any of those.

Are you sure that you aren't poaching in my territory? This looks very similar to an installation here in Shinnston. The only difference I see is that the subpanel in the Shinnston store is full of 1/2" breakers.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 11-11-2002).]


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#16350 - 11/11/02 10:16 PM Re: Violations: Convenience Store Service and Sub-Panel  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Tom, LOL! Yup! 100A... and I'd be willing to lay odds on the NM...

This one's in Greenbrier county, but probably built by the same "specialty" crew!

[Linked Image]

Switched Neutral!?!?! Yikes! I'm in over my head and didn't even know it! Use a 3 bus (3 phase) panel with the neutral on one bus?
How would I fix this right without breaking out a bulldozer?

[Linked Image]

<*goes to thoroughly confused self with the rarely opened chapter 5 of the NEC*>


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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