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#163291 - 05/05/07 02:04 PM Mounting service gear before brick.
Trick440 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Waterford, MI, USA
Do you guys do anything special when you mount your service equipment to a building that has not been bricked yet?

What we do is stack some 2x4 secure them to the building so it gets us away from the building enough to clear the brick. So its just 2 horizonal rows of stacked 2x4. We haven't had a problem with this... until lately.

2 different brick crews think its ok just to rip our service gear off the wall, brick behind it, then just let the service gear hang from the pvc.

Its not like we can wait for brick to hang our equipment. They need power in these buildings.

So I'm wondering what you guys do. Only thing I can think of is taking a brick and knocking the bricky over the head with it.
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#163294 - 05/05/07 03:21 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: Trick440]
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
Temp service, then when the building is ready, install new service. Or have the GC schedule an electrician to remove and replace, (Good Luck on that one)But there is alwayt the chance, you may have a GC with all his brain cells firing and he will work with you.
We had a few nice fires in town over the years, from contractors pulling services away from the building.

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#163295 - 05/05/07 03:54 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: LK]
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
This type of thing is just why power isn't released by the AHJ until buildings are completed.
I'm amazed that they'll let you power up a service, much less let some brick yahoo rip it off the wall.

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#163296 - 05/05/07 04:26 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: electure]
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
Scott,
One GC said to me, what do you expect me to do, tell the owner he has to pay for that too, I would not have any work, what do you think all the other contractors do, they don't pay an electrician to do it, they just rip it off the building, and put one of the straps back on, what do you think, it's rocket science to put a strap on.
Then when you explain the dangers, they reply, that a crock, it's a no win, when your dealing with some of these guys, most of them have no formal training, in any of the trades, they letter a truck, print business cards, and bingo instant GC.
In my state all they need to do is register and make a payment, no testing to see if their qualified, just turn them loose. It might be a good idea, to make them attend a CEU class on safety, It's clear they are still not operating on a full 8 when it comes to safety.

I am sorry if I sound a bit rasp on this issue, but we have eniough problem keeping our image as a safe industry, with all the hacks, we don't need the sdditional burden of GC's tearing up our work and leaving it in an unsafe condition.


Edited by LK (05/05/07 04:45 PM)

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#163300 - 05/05/07 06:18 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: LK]
Fred Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Straughn, IN 47387
I mount meterbase/service equipment before brick all of the time. I fabricate a mounting bracket from 1/4" x 2" angle iron and bolt it to the plywood/OSB. It stands the equipment off of the sheeting 4-1/2". This allows the brick to be layed up behind the equipment leaving a gap to be caulked when they are finished.

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#163303 - 05/05/07 06:46 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: Fred]
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Fred
I mount meterbase/service equipment before brick all of the time. I fabricate a mounting bracket from 1/4" x 2" angle iron and bolt it to the plywood/OSB. It stands the equipment off of the sheeting 4-1/2". This allows the brick to be layed up behind the equipment leaving a gap to be caulked when they are finished.


Our uitlity would not accept that, even as a temporary service, only the published specs, in the utility installation handbook are approved.
I tried that stunt once, and the utility cut the service. I can see their issue, a powered up service before the equiment base construction is complete, is asking for an accident.


Edited by LK (05/05/07 06:54 PM)

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#163304 - 05/05/07 07:20 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: LK]
Celtic Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
 Originally Posted By: LK
Scott,
One GC said to me, what do you expect me to do, tell the owner he has to pay for that too, ...


I've run into that situation a few times.
I gave the GC 2 choices:
1 - Pay me for the temp and maint. of same
2 - Run YOUR job on generators, and I'll have nothing to do with it.

Some comprehend #1 and go with my "suggestion".
Some go with #2 and have "issues".
One such job resulted in EVERY sub suppling their own portable generators. A very loud job to say the least ....until ALL the generators got stolen one night (along with bunches of tools, gang boxes, etc). Could have been angry neighbors...who knows?

Another job...this was a comedy....large diesel genny "ran out of fuel"....the genius who went to get more fuel - ran out of fuel in the truck...LMAO.

I had nothing to do with these "issues".
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#163307 - 05/05/07 08:32 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: LK]
Fred Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Straughn, IN 47387
LK, What do you see as a safety issue? The equipment is permanently mounted. The mounting base is complete, it is a steel bracket permanently fastened to the structure. This not a "stunt", it is an engineer approved mounting system. Would you suggest a service be de-energized when masonry is repointed? Same situation. I would like to see PoCo installation specs that prohibit this installation.

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#163364 - 05/06/07 10:41 PM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: Fred]
Samurai Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Fl.
most General contractors started out as those guys who rip services off buildings, not as electricians. I agree with most of the others (you don't have to put up with disrespectful GCs)
I gotta side with the temporary "pole"/generator crowd on this one - you want power before the house is completed? - that's how it's gonna BE - putting a service up twice is a service call, and it may be financially more prudent to consider alternative power methods before using destructive force on a completed install. (which YOU had to have immediately)
charge him for reinstalling the service
if he doesn't learn you'll be saved the hassle of working with him again

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#163365 - 05/07/07 12:22 AM Re: Mounting service gear before brick. [Re: Samurai]
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Why not just do it by the numbers and have the area where the panel is going to be bricked first? (old panel in old location) Then put up the new one in the new location as the bricklayers move on. Rip out the old one. OH, I forgot bulldogs can't herd cats.... ;\)
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