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#163245 - 05/04/07 04:00 PM Question on Knob & Tube
rowland Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 5
I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything. I don't have much experience with K&T and I am looking at doing a service upgrade on a house that has some K&T, not all just a couple of circuits. It looks like the circuits that are K&T are the orignal general use circuits to the house. The K&T wiring is in good shape, bendable, no cracks, it doesn't appear to have been over heated. The home owner doesn't want to open up the walls, so I was going to cut out half of the K&T circuit, there are no outlets on this section, set a 4x4x2 non-metallatic junction box and bring the remaining K&T in on opposite sides of the box, then tie in with romex and run back to the new panel. I ran this by a friend of mine at the local inspection office and he saw no problem with it, as long as the existing K&T was it good shape. I read this board alot and was wondering what was your thoughts or suggestions.

Rowland
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#163246 - 05/04/07 04:10 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: rowland]
Elviscat Offline
Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
just bring the old K&T in through seperate knockouts in a NM box and you should be good to go, most areas have some form of a "grandfather clause" that covers stuff like this. I would check behind the lights though, a lot of old lights on K&T hlack boxes, and have crispy wires from overlamping, just a CYA (cover your behind)

oh, and welcome to the board!

-Will


Edited by Elviscat (05/04/07 04:11 PM)
Edit Reason: add last sentence
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#163247 - 05/04/07 04:17 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Elviscat]
Tom H Offline
Member
Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 74
Loc: Milford, Ct, USA
Look in the NEC, not sue what article but you might need to protect the existing K&T with a GFI. Ran into this about 8-9 yrs ago and that was the solution then, not sure if NEC has changed since.

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#163248 - 05/04/07 04:20 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Elviscat]
rowland Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 5
I was planning on bringing the K&T in through different knockouts, in fact I am planning using one of those NM junction boxes that you drill your own holes in and I was even going use some rubber groments in the holes. Thanks for the input. In my area K&T is taboo, everyone says rip it out. The way I look at it, it has been that for 100 years and if it is good shape why rip open walls and ceilings.

Rowland
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#163249 - 05/04/07 04:24 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Tom H]
rowland Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By Tom H
Look in the NEC, not sue what article but you might need to protect the existing K&T with a GFI. Ran into this about 8-9 yrs ago and that was the solution then, not sure if NEC has changed since.



The artical in the NEC for K&T is about 2 pages long and just says splices will be in an approved manner and wire will be in accordance with 310. I and my friend found nothing about GFCI, but I will double check.

Thanks
Rowland
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#163254 - 05/04/07 05:11 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: rowland]
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The only way to get to GFCI being required on K&T is if you serve a grounding type receptacle and no ground present
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Greg Fretwell
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#163255 - 05/04/07 05:51 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: gfretwell]
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
K&T is still an approved method of wiring, however, in the last few months we have been getting calls from home sellers, it seems the buyers of homes, that have K&T can not get insurance for them, and are requiring rewire before insuring.
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#163259 - 05/04/07 07:14 PM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: LK]
Obsaleet Offline
Member
Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Pa
Hi Rowland,
u can use solder on the K&T and tape it up just as was done on all the joints and taps. It is one of the approved mean, and is simple. I have been out on many calls from realtors, to remove wirnuts and other splices from K&T. Inspectors here seem to like this approch.

Ob
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Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
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#163279 - 05/05/07 09:06 AM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Obsaleet]
Sixer Offline
Member
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 265
Loc: Canada
Where the old K&T enters existing boxes, there should be an additional sleeve on the wire. I always have a couple of pieces of this sleeving on hand when working with K&T for entry into new boxes to protect the wire.

As for insurance, we have the same issue here as what Les said above. Once a house with K&T is sold, insurance companies give a fixed period of time to have it replaced, otherwise the homeowner can't get insurance.

_________________________
Sixer

"Will it be cheaper if I drill the holes for you?"
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#163289 - 05/05/07 11:37 AM Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Sixer]
Mountain Electrician Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 31
Loc: Maine, USA
Originally Posted By Sixer
Where the old K&T enters existing boxes, there should be an additional sleeve on the wire. I always have a couple of pieces of this sleeving on hand when working with K&T for entry into new boxes to protect the wire.

As for insurance, we have the same issue here as what Les said above. Once a house with K&T is sold, insurance companies give a fixed period of time to have it replaced, otherwise the homeowner can't get insurance.


The same is true here, as well. The last job I did the homeowner was required replace the K&T within 30 days after closing.
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