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#161948 - 04/10/07 12:25 PM Screened in porch receptacles
sparkync Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 811
Loc: NC
I have a job where the outside deck in being closed in as a screened porch. I will be adding 2 receptacles on the existing outside wall of the house(brick)away from the screened area. This deck is about 10 ft. off the ground. There is no entry way from the ground to this deck. There is a solid shingled roof over this area also. Is GFI protection still required on these outlets? Thanks Steve...


Edited by sparkync (04/10/07 12:30 PM)

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#161952 - 04/10/07 01:52 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: sparkync]
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Depending on the AHJ's definition of "Outdoors" you may or may not need GFCI protection. IMHO if it is elevated and not accessible from grade, meaning you can't stand on the ground and reach the receptacle as you discribed I would not expect to see GFCI protection as a requirement. I would say tho that if it were my own home and I planed on using this receptacle for use with a hand held piece of equipment on the ground I'd pop for the GFCI.
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#161962 - 04/10/07 05:49 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: George Little]
renosteinke Offline
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Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
While I'd hate to have to defend my position in court, I'd say "GFCI's needed."

Looking at other 'sort of damp' places, such as kitchens, garages, and basements, we see a pattern of GFCI's being called for. I'd extend this logic to the porch. At $10 each, it's not a cost to sweat about.

I would, however, see no need for outdoor covers ... and 'bubble' covers would be plain silly.

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#161966 - 04/10/07 07:19 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: renosteinke]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
406.8(A) seems to say you need a snap cover but not a bubble.
That would also get a GFCI in most places around here but it is certainly a judgement call by the AHJ. I think it is "outside" but your mileage may vary if you don't live in a place where it can rain sideways on any summer day.
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#161968 - 04/10/07 07:26 PM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: renosteinke]
HLCbuild Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 206
Loc: Herndon,Va USA
The Code used to be more clear on this issue. It used to talk about direct access to grade, but now it just says "outdoors" so I'd say since outdoors is not listed in the definitions, I'd agree with George that it would be the inspector's call. Our Chief Inspector has a saying for this: "it's a dirty business"!

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#161972 - 04/11/07 03:41 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: HLCbuild]
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
After thinking about this for a coupla days and reading what others are saying I have modified my thinking and thought about the fact that while the receptacle might not be in a wet location and not be subject to water or driving rain, due to the location on the screened in porch, there is still a very good posibility that the floor would be wet and possibly provide a path to ground. The receptacle is certianly outdoors because if it were indoors we'd need more than just the receptacles on the house wall. Assuming that, I have taken a definite stand for needing GFCI protection and would write it.
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#161986 - 04/11/07 08:10 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: George Little]
venture Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 37
Loc: San Diego Ca USA
I added a screen porch to a cabin I lived in. It had the laundry hook up and I had a freezer so I wired it like a room addition. When I questioned the inspector he said how I wired it decided whether it was outdoors or not. If I had had put in 2 recp. on the house it was outside and needed a GFCI. I wired it like a room so he called it a room. Rod

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#161990 - 04/11/07 08:59 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: venture]
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Here is a Canadian Electrical code answer. If the open deck, balcony or porch is above 2.5 meters or 8 feet then no GFCI protection is required. From a more pragmatic perspective if there is no other outlets available from grade and the porch is accessible from grade i might be inclined to ask for a GFCI regardless of the above rule. We don't require GFCI protection on balconies exposed to the elements above 8 feet and frankly we are not shocking people on their decks regardless of the weather. I am surprised at the number of GFCI protected receptacles required by the NEC and in some circumstances the lack of required protection required by the CEC. I guess Canadians don't get electrocuted as often as US citizens?

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#161991 - 04/11/07 09:26 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: mikesh]
ccdave Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 61
Loc: culver city,calif. usa
Upstairs balconies are required to have gfci protection here, covered or not

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#161993 - 04/11/07 09:49 AM Re: Screened in porch receptacles [Re: ccdave]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Canadians are probably just less reckless than Americans. We do tend to do dangerous things that other people never thought of. The X games were invented here along with the demolition derby, skydiving, kite surfing and lawn darts.
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