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#15929 - 11/02/02 12:09 PM Typical Engineer's Overkill
rowdyrudy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
Though the site may be interested in how a retired EE, also Master Electrician, designs and wires his own home. I had a ball doing it myself.

Rowdy

4000 Sq. Ft. Living area
1700 Sq. Ft. Basement
800 Sq. Ft. Garage Attached
650 Sq. Ft..Garage Detached
1200 Sq. Ft. RV Garage Detached
100 Sq. Ft. Generator House

400/2 Bifurcated Main
Panel P1 200/2 MCB
Panel P2 200/2 MCB
125/2 2
90/2 1
60/2 1
50/2 1
40/2 2
30/2 3
20/2 3
20/1 GFI 7
15/1 GFI 1
20/1 19
15/1 31
40/2 Spare 1
20/1 Spare 3
15/1 Spare 3

Generac Emergency Generator w/ATS

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#15930 - 11/02/02 03:51 PM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
I like it. How big is the generator?

Roger

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#15931 - 11/02/02 05:12 PM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
With all the sq ft listed (8450) assumed as living area, and assuming 4 small appliance circuits, 1 laundry, 1 dryer, 1 fridge, 1 freezer, 1 dish washer, 1 water heater, 1 microwave, 1 range, 2 heating units and 2 AC units...

My demand load calcs out to 171.1 Amps at 240V (41,067.5 VA), and I'm over calculating it, not by code minumums... Which would convince me that a single 200A service would suffice.

I usually ask customers, is your electric bill more that $1000 a month? If not, then 200A is plenty.

Not meant to nag or flame, just curious as to the over-design. Are you planning on using welders and such in your shop?

That would make all the difference!



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-02-2002).]
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#15932 - 11/03/02 12:37 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:
800 Sq. Ft. Garage Attached

That's bigger than the whole area of some British houses!

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#15933 - 11/03/02 06:31 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
rowdyrudy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
Maybe this helps.

4000 Sq. Ft. Living area
1700 Sq. Ft. Basement
800 Sq. Ft. Garage Attached
650 Sq. Ft..Garage Detached
1200 Sq. Ft. RV Garage Detached
100 Sq. Ft. Generator House

400/2 Bifurcated Main
Panel P1 200/2 MCB
Panel P2 200/2 MCB
125/2 2 Sub-Feed to P1A, Sub-Feed to P2A
90/2 1 Emergency Heat Lower Geothermal Unit
60/2 1 Emergency Heat Upper Geothermal Unit
50/2 1 Lower Geothermal Unit
40/2 2 Wall Oven, Transfer Switch (Panel EM)
30/2 3 Upper Geothermal Unit, South H2O, Dryer
20/2 3 North H2O, Pressure Pump, Meter Power for Co-Op
20/1 GFI 7 Kitchen, Baths (Site, Garage, Basement use GFI Recpts)
15/1 GFI 1 Water Softener
20/1 19 General Use
15/1 31 Lighting, General Use
40/2 Spare 1
20/1 Spare 3
15/1 Spare 3

8KW Generac Emergency Generator w/ATS
Refrigerators, Freezer, Sump Pump, Pressure Pump, Various Ltg, Few Kitchen Recpts on Gen.

I also have 4-RG6, 4-RG59, 4-RG58, 12 pair Tel looped throughout.
Rowdy

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#15934 - 11/03/02 06:33 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
Tom Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Trust an engineer to use a 25 cent word when the nickle variety will do. Bifurcated? Have you been saving that one up?

I could make some serious money off of your designs, care to do some part time consulting?

Tom
_________________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

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#15935 - 11/03/02 08:38 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
He's been reading James Gleck's "Chaos"!
I guess "split" sounds too violent!



What would really impress me is if you had your own substation with a high voltage feed and paid the PoCo a flat rate of a few Million per year like some factories do...

How about a 4160/7200 Wye with an ampacity of say, 1000 Amps?

Then you'd really be the envy of the neighborhood!

Just pickin' on ya, rowdyrudy! All in good fun...


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-03-2002).]
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#15936 - 11/03/02 10:18 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
Nick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 603
Loc: Riverside, CA
4160/7200 Wye ?

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#15937 - 11/03/02 10:25 AM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
Being an engineer myself, I find some features lacking in your design.

In a 4000 sqft house I would suppose some (most) of the 15/20amp runs are long enough to have important voltage drops.

In the houses I design, I install 50/60amp circuits from the main to 8 circuit subpanels and let these subpanels supply the 15/20amp circuits for 650 sqft.

In your 4000 sqft home I would set the main up as 6 50amp 220v breakers for subpanels at the top left, your 6 other 220v loads at the top right and then the misc garage/exterior loads at the bottom.

This makes the main panel area a bit tidier.

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#15938 - 11/03/02 12:07 PM Re: Typical Engineer's Overkill
rowdyrudy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Mascoutah, IL USA
This is a great forum and based upon what I have read, I see conscientious contractors who desire to do things right. Over the years I became more and more disgusted with owners and developers who insisted on bare minimums for electrical installations. I actually had a developer tell me “I don’t give a damn about quality, I just want the light to come on when I flip the switch”. I declined to participate in his project. As I had the time and resources I tried to envision every possible remedy for the myriad of shortcomings that I witnessed during my active years and constructed accordingly. A lot of what I included has roots in commercial and industrial. There is a large amount of metal raceway indoors and PVC underground. Some items are things that I wanted to include in projects but owner’s budgets negated those frills. Electrical is not the only area where innovation was dominant. My residence has been toured by IBEW apprentice classes, NAHB groups, engineering classes from a nearby university, and several inspectors both during construction and following completion. Another item that may be of interest to the forum: In the rural county where I am located, there is no electrical permit required nor any building inspection except for the sewage treatment system. I have been actively pursuing the county to institute legislation to require permits and inspections. It’s difficult as the farmers don’t want an inspector telling them they cannot wire their barn with zip cord. BTW, I retired 10 years past and still assist small contractors in the area in mitigating problems.


Rowdy

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