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#154782 - 11/17/04 04:41 PM Help With Proposal
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
I am making a proposal on a 110 unit duplex project and wanted to see if I could get some feedback.

The units are 1100 SQF each, no meter, all electric. The units will each get a panel outside that is fed from a PDC. Each unit is geothermal.

The owner is supplying all material. I am just providing labor. 6 guys..3 j-men and three helpers.

What is the best way to bill and what is the best way to calculate hours spent on the job?

No permit required.

Thanks for any replies or suggestions.

-regards

Greg
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:
#154783 - 11/17/04 05:41 PM Re: Help With Proposal
Active 1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 684
Loc: Grayslake IL, USA
If you have a fixed price per unit your taking some risk that you might be to low x 110 units. If so charge accordinly. By the end things should go much faster and you might make out. Charging labor only would be the safest if your rate is high enough to cover OH and proffit. You still have to figure a what if. What if an appenentace wired in every GFI backwords.

I don't like others suppling material. You do loose your chance of mark up. I might add in something like "We reserve the right the reject material the is below the standards of our company".

You might want to think about charging for misc. supplies on each unit. What happens is they say they will give you everything. All the little things you use like scwews, tape, blades, one of these an one of those add up. Eather you waist you time making them get those little things they forgot or you provide them and get it done. $10-20 A unit of your stuff could add up.

The more payouts the better for you. Because you have a labor only slim deal I would bill out at the end of the week for units roughed or compleated.

Just some Ideas,

Tom

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#154784 - 11/17/04 06:24 PM Re: Help With Proposal
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I know that I could make a few extra dollars on material but the owner has already agreed to let a supply company provide the material in a container for 6 units at a time.

The owner is doing another 110 units right after this one is done and has plans to develop several subdivisions. I am in a booming area and they are building on any available ground. I could see alot of additional work from this. I know that you hear that all the time from the owner or gc but what they say has no effect on my decision other than the fact that when that day comes its a bridge i will cross then. If i never see any additional work then no big deal.

I am allowing 8 hours per unit which includes trim.

8 hours per unit is 880 hrs total work.

-regards

mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 11-18-2004).]
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#154785 - 11/17/04 07:04 PM Re: Help With Proposal
Electric Eagle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 928
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Mustang, you're under $1000 per unit and I'm not sure that's enough. You did say you don't have to build a meter, but Are you saying you can rough and trim a unit in 8 manhours or is that a 2 man crew for 8 hours? I don't know all the details, but I know 1 man can't rough and trim a unit in 8 hours and I really don't think 2 can. Most duplexes I've seen, I would count on a full day to rough and a half day to trim for 2 men. Using your number of $100per hour for 2 men I come up with $1200 per unit or $132,000 total. That's leaving $35,000 sitting on the table or under it. You should figure on worst case, not best. I would rather lose the job than lose money on the job.

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#154786 - 11/17/04 07:25 PM Re: Help With Proposal
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,

My hours may not be correct. I have 3 j-men and helpers working working a total of 24 hours in a day each group...i should have calculated 24hrs @ $60 which is $1440 per day for three j-men and 24hrs @ $40 which is $960 per day. So that total is $1440+$960=$2400 per day.

So 24 weeks is 120 days at $2400 per day which is $288,000.00 if my math is right.

That would make a big difference.

then I would have:

TOTAL WAGES:$77,760

$77,760-$288,000.00=$210,240.00 which sounds too high.

My math must be off tonight..


The 8 hours is based on a SINGLE 1100 sq ft duplex with a j-man and apprentice doing the rough-in and the trim. That may be a low estimate. 10 hrs per unit for two men is 6 hrs for rough and 4 hours for trim.

I think that is plenty of time to rough-in 1100 sqf.

-regards

mustang
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Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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#154787 - 11/17/04 08:35 PM Re: Help With Proposal
Dave55 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 666
Loc: Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA
I don't have any experience in this type of work, though I'm guessing you're using NM for those hours, with minimal lighting and circuits. My only suggestion is to make sure you're getting payments so you can meet payroll, or you will be borrowing money and going down fast.

Good Luck with it, mustang!

Dave

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#154788 - 11/18/04 03:36 AM Re: Help With Proposal
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
I would charge more than my normal labor rate if I was not supplying material.

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#154789 - 11/18/04 11:03 AM Re: Help With Proposal
velect Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 79
Loc: st joseph mi usa
Why isn't a permit required?

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#154790 - 11/18/04 03:20 PM Re: Help With Proposal
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
This job is out in the county where there is NO AHJ other than the state. No permits or inspections.

The state can inspect if they want to but it is not permitted. I am not real sure on how all that will work.

Nice huh? That doesnt mean it doesnt have to meet code.

-regards

Mustang
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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#154791 - 11/18/04 03:45 PM Re: Help With Proposal
golf junkie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 511
Loc: York, NE
"I would charge more than my normal labor rate if I was not supplying material."

The way we figure it is to estimate labor then we will add the profit from the material sale. If that knocks us out of the job, well then it just leaves the door open for a more profitable opportunity.

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