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#154598 - 07/31/06 09:34 AM AFCIs?
SolarPowered Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 615
Loc: Palo Alto, CA, USA
I've seen various statements that "The 2008 code will require AFCIs on all 15- and 20-amp residential circuits." Has that actually been approved and we're stuck with it, or is it just a request from the AFCI mfgs' marketing departments that's likely to be rejected further down the code-making process?

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#154599 - 07/31/06 12:14 PM Re: AFCIs?
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
The NEC committees have accepted the proposals... you can download the proposalls here, and from other sites.

This is the comment period- the time to, perhapes, persuade the committee members to change their votes.

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#154600 - 07/31/06 12:44 PM Re: AFCIs?
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
One thing to consider. These things run warm to the touch. What will be the impact of 20 of them in a panel in a Florida or Arizona garage in the summer?
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#154601 - 07/31/06 01:06 PM Re: AFCIs?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
It will be fine, you will just have to purchase $$$ the fan forced cooling accessory for the panel and put up with noise like a Nutone Bath Fan.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#154602 - 08/01/06 09:15 PM Re: AFCIs?
trobb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Iowa City, IA
But on the plus side you won't need to heat the utility room.

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#154603 - 08/04/06 08:25 AM Re: AFCIs?
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
Just add $ 500 to the cost of every house that gets wired. Not counting the call backs for nuisance tripping and the fact that multiwire brach curcuits will be history.
I believe that if this product is so wonderful that customers would demand it and the insurance company would cut your premiums in half for having them installed.
( It all started with bubble covers.)
Put it in the Code to sell the product.
Alan--
Send a Comment Form to NFPA to stop the madness.
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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#154604 - 08/04/06 03:59 PM Re: AFCIs?
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Alan, you are far too optomistic...

Almost every new house uses at least 25 breakers. A standard breaker might cost $4, while the AFCI ones are easily $35.
25 x 4 = $100 in breakers.
25 x 35 = $875 in breakers.

That does not take into account the additional troubleshooting, or other complications.

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#154605 - 08/05/06 07:53 AM Re: AFCIs?
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
One member of the panel in his negative vote comment estimated that the cost per year for new home construction would add if this were adopted 2 BILLION dollars.
He then used NFPA numbers concerning fires to show that it would possibly prevent less than 50 MILLION dollars in damage.
The CPSC wanted AFCIs in all residential buildings not just new ones but the panel stopped that move in the 2005 Code.
Alan--
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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#154606 - 11/22/06 09:46 PM Re: AFCIs?
Almost Fried Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Madison County, Ark. USA
Alan
It didn't start with the bubble covers, go back to '70 or thereabouts and the requirement for full size ground wires in #12 & 10 romex, then lately this business of grounded switch yokes helped pay the likes of Leviton and Cooper and others to move their factories South & Far East and retool. How many switches have you EVER encountered that failed in service & made the yoke hot?Plleeeaase! Of course, the "industry representitatives" on the code making committees steer the document in the direction of more business for the industries. Been watching this process for 39 years, Klein should stick to making the finest pliers and screwdrivers in the world, Greenlee should stick to making the finest ko punches and accessories available, do we really need racing stripes on the handles of $ 26 dykes, we don't need multinational conglomerates lobbying for code regulations that place good wiring out of the reach of most homeowners. Just how many fires are arc fault breakers claiming to prevent?

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#154607 - 11/23/06 09:48 AM Re: AFCIs?
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Code changes go through the following steps before becoming law:
1- proposal made
2- proposal accepted
3- comments sought
4- comments considered
5- proposal finalised
6- proposed code submitted to vote at convention
7- code published
8- code accepted by AHJ

The AFCI proposal is at "Step 4" right now.

My own proposal on the subject was rejected, as more assertion than data. Fair enough. The committee and I will continue to have major differences in opinion on this subject.

As in the past, I expect the next major hurdle to be a "Step 8" ... that local jurisdictions will not accept that part of the NEC.

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