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#153667 - 10/30/03 04:10 AM Oversize Plates
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Per NEC 314.21Repairing Plaster and Drywall or Plasterboard.
Plaster, drywall, or plasterboard surfaces that are broken or incomplete shall be repaired so there will be no gaps or spaces greater than 3mm (1/8") at the edge of the box or fitting.

OK, then, does anyone ever enforce this? There are plates made with the express purpose of covering oversize cuts. (Ironically, I've even seen them advertized as such in the IAEI magazine).
What do you think?...S

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Building Codes & Related References
#153668 - 10/30/03 06:06 AM Re: Oversize Plates
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
I am usually more concerned about it in a rated wall than an average installation. Like you said, the over-sized plates will cover it before I will see it.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#153669 - 10/30/03 06:56 AM Re: Oversize Plates
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
I always thought the only way the use of these could be justified is to cover up some irregularity in the wall finish (ie Paint, Wallpaper), not oversized holes.

What did the ad in the Magazine say?

Bill

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#153670 - 10/30/03 07:47 AM Re: Oversize Plates
Jim M Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 453
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
Scott,

I have yet to see an inspector pull off more than a panel cover. So it seems that what doesn't get seen will get passed.

Should my inspection fail for work that I didn't do, i.e. the sheetrock? Who should fix those gaps?

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#153671 - 10/30/03 09:04 AM Re: Oversize Plates
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
I agree with Bill's perspective as to the use of these.There is no excuse for a carpenter or drywall hanger to leave an oversized hole around the box for the electrician to have to deal with.. I never hesitate to call this to their attention, and the attention of their superiors if need be. Sometimes it ruffles their feathers, but who cares. Occasionally I have had to quote NEC 314.21 to them. Then I let them know that the oversized holes are to be repaired or I don't trim out !! No exceptions.
_________________________
Donnie

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#153672 - 10/30/03 09:47 AM Re: Oversize Plates
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
I have worked with an engineer who spec medium size plates for all struck block jobs. This makes good sense do to the fact even the best masons can't make all cuts that tight.

As far as 314.21, I brought this up in the BC area questioning why this is not in 314.20. It seems we could toss out 314.21 if it were.

The UL orange book states any box in a rated wall will not have more than an 1/8" gap therfore overridding the NEC laxness. (is that a word )

Roger

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#153673 - 10/30/03 10:36 AM Re: Oversize Plates
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Is the space around th ebox addressed in the Building Code somewhere?
Or is it only found in the Electrical Code?

It seems to me it should be in both places, especially if they want it to be enforced.

Bill

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#153674 - 10/30/03 11:34 AM Re: Oversize Plates
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
 Quote:
even the best masons can't make all cuts that tight.

No, but they can fill the gaps with mortar,just as a sheetrock finisher can fill the gaps with tape and mud.

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-30-2003).]
_________________________
Donnie

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#153675 - 10/30/03 02:22 PM Re: Oversize Plates
pwood Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 64
Loc: castella,calif usa
bill,
section 709.6 calif.bldb. code(1997 ubc)addresses the firestopping methods.in concrete walls ;concrete,grout,or mortar the full thickness of the wall or the thickness required to maintain the rating is o.k.fire caulking or other listed systems are acceptable in other types of walls.
the material used to fill the annular space shall prevent the passage of flame and hot gases sufficient to ignite cotton waste when subjected to ubc standard 7-1 time temperature fire conditions under a minimum positive pressure differential of 0.01inch of water column(2.5pa)at the location of the penetration for the time period equivelent to the fire rating of the construction penetrated.that's the technical explanation!

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#153676 - 10/30/03 02:28 PM Re: Oversize Plates
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Donnie, the gaps aren't a code issue in CMU construction. Set back is. The plates are only for a clean finish on the exposed block.

The masons always mud in behind the boxes and point them up anyways.

Roger

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